Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My Shaman data is factual "real time numbers". Troxx brought single encounters, and so did I lol. How many fights do you want? I'll post a few more logs. It doesn't change.

My data is better than Troxx's because it's an actual log lol. With Troxx's data we have to assume his parser is correct.

You can parse my data right now if you don't believe it. I am even showing what mob I fought, so you can do the same and post your own logs with a Mage. We don't know what mobs Troxx was fighting.

Please post data for sustained xp group situations, as Troxx has, as others have requested. We don't care about 1-2 fights. And bring multiple shamans into the picture, not just one trying to win this argument. A shaman will on average be lower dps than a mage, this is factual, even at 60. The gap will continue to increase as mages acquire things like focus item/epic.

Until then, sorry, you've provided nothing of value.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please post data for sustained xp group situations, as Troxx has, as others have requested. We don't care about 1-2 fights. And bring multiple shamans into the picture, not just one trying to win this argument. A shaman will on average be lower dps than a mage, this is factual, even at 60. The gap will continue to increase as mages acquire things like focus item/epic.

Until then, sorry, you've provided nothing of value.

You are just being silly because you don't want to accept it. You are also trying to win the argument[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage DPS is going to be around 80 on average, as the math clearly proves.

Shaman DPS is going to be around 70 on average, as the math clearly proves.

Nobody is going to use a Mage over a Shaman for 10 DPS, with occasional increases in DPS via burst lol.

Mage Epic is very rare, so you can't count on your group having one.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just going to repost the math. If you know basic math, you will understand.

This post shows a level 60 Mage's average DPS. I will take into account damage shield since it was asked for.

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Average pet DPS: (46 + 60 + 56 + 52 + 75 + 57 + 50 + 55 + 52) / 9 = ~56 DPS.

A Mage with max Meditate and Clarity II is regenerating mana at 31 mana per tick. Let's assume this Mage has 3000 Mana to start with.

Max mana per hour: (31 mana x 10 ticks per minute x 60 minutes) + 3000 = 21600.

Shock of Steel costs 275 mana, so that means you can cast it a maximum of 78 times, assuming that is all you do and you meditate every tick.

Best possible player DPS: (825 damage x 78 nukes) / 3600 seconds = ~18 DPS.

For damage shield calculations it varies wildly based on what you are fighting, if you are using slow, etc.

I let a froglok jin wizard drain all of it's mana and then beat on me for a minute:

[Tue Aug 23 07:04:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:13 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:15 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:27 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:29 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:31 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:43 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:45 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:56 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:58 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:05:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.

That is 25 hits. A Mage's DS is 33, so that would be (33 x 25) / 60 = ~14 DPS. Basically an extra nuke.

This means a Mage is going to be doing around 88 DPS with an unfocused level 60 Water pet, with Clarity 2, with Damage Shield, while nuking at the absolute best. The real number is going to be lower, since a Mage is not realistically going to be using the maximum number of nukes per hour. They need to use mana for other things. The DS damage will probably be lower in a group too, since mobs may die faster than a minute, get slowed, etc. My guess is the real number is closer to 80 DPS.

================================================== ================================================== =========

For Shaman DPS:

My Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:34 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:18 2022] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:41 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Your Envenomed Bolt spell has worn off.


[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
30 seconds (6 Ticks)

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:25 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
24 seconds (4 Ticks)

Enemy Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:32 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP

Pet DPS
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:24 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:25 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:28 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 16 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:33 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:42 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:43 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:44 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:49 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:53 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:56 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:58 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 20 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:01 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:03 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:05 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:06 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:15 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:17 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:22 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:30 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:38 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 15 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:41 2022] You bash froglok jin shaman for 1 point of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:42 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 21 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 22 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 26 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:54 2022] You have slain froglok jin shaman!

6,549 damage over 93 seconds = 70.5 DPS

This is 70.5 DPS to a froglok jin shaman in Sebilis just using a 50% hasted Spirit of the Howler pet and Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt. The pet is not max level. He is hitting for 47, so that is a lower end pet (max is 52, each level increases damage by 2). No need to root/rot with this setup in a group, and the DoTs only last 7 or 8 ticks.

A single set of Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt costs 745 mana. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc using this video, it looks like you can Torpor recover mana at around 14 mana per second. If you include C2, it is more like 16 mana per second. This means you can recover the 745 mana in 46 seconds. That is easily the length of a fight if Enchanters are fighting 2 mobs with charmed pets. This means the DPS is generally sustainable too.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are just being silly because you don't want to accept it. You are also trying to win the argument[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage DPS is going to be around 80 on average, as the math clearly proves.

Shaman DPS is going to be around 70 on average, as the math clearly proves.

Nobody is going to use a Mage over a Shaman for 10 DPS, with occasional increases in DPS via burst lol.

Mage Epic is very rare, so you can't count on your group having one.

Shaman DPS is not 70 on average. That's your attempt to flex to win this argument, lol. In reality, they will get lazy, stop spamming dots/canni/torpor just to try to keep up, and end up spamming their jbb because they are not trying to win an argument in a thread. I've seen this time and time again. That's the beauty of mages, they don't really have to try that hard to do it. People tend to be lazy, like rogues not even bothering clicking backstab.

Your math is not real, lol. Just inflated to win an argument. Sorry, you've provided numbers that nobody takes seriously.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman DPS is not 70 on average. That's your attempt to flex to win this argument, lol. In reality, they will get lazy, stop spamming dots/canni/torpor just to try to keep up, and end up spamming their jbb because they are not trying to win an argument in a thread. I've seen this time and time again. That's the beauty of mages, they don't really have to try that hard to do it. People tend to be lazy, like rogues not even bothering clicking backstab.

Your math is not real, lol. Just inflated to win an argument. Sorry, you've provided numbers that nobody takes seriously.

The math is factual, a Shaman can easily output 70 DPS over 70 mobs. You can't escape it, and can do the math yourself! A Shaman would just need to click 3 buttons (pet attack, Bane, Envenomed Bolt).

You really can't use the "lazy" player argument. If that was the case then Mage DPS is also lower lol. They would forget to use their pet at times when they got lazy because the two Enchanter pets are already destroying the mob. They also wouldn't nuke.

Saying the math isn't real means nothing, because it's factually real. You are just making stuff up because you can't admit defeat.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The math is factual, a Shaman can easily output 70 DPS over 70 mobs. You can't escape it, and can do the math yourself! A Shaman would just need to click 3 buttons (pet attack, Bane, Envenomed Bolt).

You really can't use the "lazy" player argument. If that was the case then Mage DPS is also lower lol. They would forget to use their pet at times when they got lazy because the two Enchanter pets are already destroying the mob. They also wouldn't nuke.

No they wouldn't. They'd need to be clicking Pet Attack, Bane, Envenomed Bolt, and Canni/Torpor constantly to maintain that heavy mana cost. You're just honing in on 1-2 fights, nobody cares about that.

Lazy is perfectly valid, that's what makes mage's so special. They can send in a pet, drop 1 nuke, and sit, and be out dpsing the whole group basically. The shaman would have to sit there like a madman, foot on the gas 24/7, to maintain the insane mana cost of trying to dps with dots.

People in this thread have already said "show me an hour video of this". The only shamans that would actually keep this up, would be people like you trying to win an argument. A shaman is not holding 70 dps in a sustained xp group. They are clicking their jbb, lol.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they wouldn't. They'd need to be clicking Pet Attack, Bane, Envenomed Bolt, and Canni/Torpor constantly to maintain that heavy mana cost. You're just honing in on 1-2 fights, nobody cares about that.

Lazy is perfectly valid, that's what makes mage's so special. They can send in a pet, drop 1 nuke, and sit, and be out dpsing the whole group basically. The shaman would have to sit there like a madman, foot on the gas 24/7, to maintain the insane mana cost of trying to dps with dots.

People in this thread have already said "show me an hour video of this". The only shamans that would actually keep this up, would be people like you trying to win an argument. A shaman is not holding 70 dps in a sustained xp group. They are clicking their jbb, lol.

A Shaman is always Canni/Torporing. If they aren't they are a bad Shaman. Your whole argument is "bad players DPS lower". That is true of a mage too.

It's a dumb argument to say "DPS matters, therefore bring a mage" while at the same time saying "I am fine with bringing a lazy player who is going to be DPSing extremely poorly because they can't be bothered to play right". If you are fine with bringing that lazy player, then DPS doesn't matter to you lol.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DPS isn't an issue in a group with multiple charm pets, is the most worthless part of this argument.

No kidding. Group might be doing 415 DPS with a shaman or 435 with a magician and they can't tell the difference. It's not shaman vs magician, it's group vs group and the magician isn't offering enough of a boost to justify giving up 500+ HP per player let alone everything else the shaman offers. The magician only wins when it offers something specific that the group needs other than damage, be it call of the hero, an easy class for a limited player, whatever.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No kidding. Group might be doing 415 DPS with a shaman or 435 with a magician and they can't tell the difference. It's not shaman vs magician, it's group vs group and the magician isn't offering enough of a boost to justify giving up 500+ HP per player let alone everything else the shaman offers. The magician only wins when it offers something specific that the group needs other than damage, be it call of the hero, an easy class for a limited player, whatever.

Exactly.

[Zuranthium]

Your DoTs are not going to tick full duration the majority of the time. WTF do you not understand.

Manarobe and DPS clickies also exist for Mage. Your numbers are not accurate at all.