OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Razdeline]

What ever happened to Sloan's 2 hour rule? It was extremely simple, unbiased, and allows everyone to be on the same competitive playing field. The majority of people voted for it in a poll already.

Implement something simple now, and roll with it. If it sucks, keep the guild council and amend it later. Sadly, any type of rotational idea is not the answer. Killing competition in EQ raiding will kill the game itself.

The problem with raiding now is the deviation between top tier guilds and lower tier guilds. This means it is nearly impossible for guilds like BDA/Taken/Divinity to compete with top tier guilds on desired higher end raid targets. The 2 hour rule mitigates this level of deviation, however. Which ultimately puts everyone on a more balanced competitive field.

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What ever happened to Sloan's 2 hour rule? It was extremely simple, unbiased, and allows everyone to be on the same competitive playing field. The majority of people voted for it in a poll already.

Implement something simple now, and roll with it. If it sucks, keep the guild council and amend it later. Sadly, any type of rotational idea is not the answer. Killing competition in EQ raiding will kill the game itself.

The problem with raiding now is the deviation between top tier guilds and lower tier guilds. This means it is nearly impossible for guilds like BDA/Taken/Divinity to compete with top tier guilds on desired higher end raid targets. The 2 hour rule mitigates this level of deviation, however. Which ultimately puts everyone on a more balanced competitive field.

It was decided against because the second TMO got off suspension it would become a TMO/FE rotation, which is kinda sorta just a little what got us into this mess.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What ever happened to Sloan's 2 hour rule? It was extremely simple, unbiased, and allows everyone to be on the same competitive playing field. The majority of people voted for it in a poll already.
.

The 2 hour rule does not help casuals. It still requires tracking, it creates a defacto rotation, and the majority of the kills will still go to the guilds that go the extra mile.

No matter what, the 2 hour rule creates a system of rotation. Last killer must wait 2 hours? The 2nd guild gets it. Last 2 killers must wait 2 hours, the 3rd gets it. So on and so on. It becomes a rotation between the organizations that can field a raid at all hours.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour rule does not help casuals. It still requires tracking, it creates a defacto rotation, and the majority of the kills will still go to the guilds that go the extra mile.

No matter what, the 2 hour rule creates a system of rotation. Last killer must wait 2 hours? The 2nd guild gets it. Last 2 killers must wait 2 hours, the 3rd gets it. So on and so on. It becomes a rotation between the organizations that can field a raid at all hours.

The 2 hour rule would work if killing a mob only kills that guilds potential for it's next spawn. That was my understanding of it. There are lower tier guilds that are going to fail on Trak, etc. for 2+ hours, or not even notice it is up because they are not willing to put in the work of the "Category A" guilds.

Which is also something that should not be undermined here. Guilds like IB/FE/TMO get to where they are at ultimately through time spent working towards it. An agreement needs to be simple, and can not cater to people not willing to work hard towards reaching these desired raid targets. Free loot is not the answer and would be worse than a rotation based on the raid design of this game.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour rule would work if killing a mob only kills that guilds potential for it's next spawn. That was my understanding of it. There are lower tier guilds that are going to fail on Trak, etc. for 2+ hours, or not even notice it is up because they are not willing to put in the work of the "Category A" guilds.

Which is also something that should not be undermined here. Guilds like IB/FE/TMO get to where they are at ultimately through time spent working towards it. An agreement needs to be simple, and can not cater to people not willing to work hard towards reaching these desired raid targets. Free loot is not the answer and would be worse than a rotation based on the raid design of this game.

The main complaints presented from the casual community are 1) Uber Guild dominance & 2) the need to track.

The 2 hour rule does very little to prevent the tracking issue. If Sev pops at 6 AM, the casuals will not have a meaningful shot at the mob.

Secondly, preventing one guild from killing for 2 hours enables the second guild a free kill. If you prevent the last two killers from competing for 2 hours, the third strong guild is essentially defaulted the kill. It's simple economics. If that third (or fourth, or fifth) guild is given an artificial advantage towards a scarce resource, they will capitalize on it. Again, those in power at any given time dominate preventing meaningful participation from those are are not, and cannot be, hardcore.

[Bossman]

I love the responses of the vocal "hardcores". "Why don't we just give everybody epics?" "You want us to kill everything for you too?"

Just because we do not wish to compete at the retarded level of alt army poopsocking that you do does not mean that we do not wish to compete. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Bossman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love the responses of the vocal "hardcores". "Why don't we just give everybody epics?" "You want us to kill everything for you too?"

Just because we do not wish to compete at the retarded level of alt army poopsocking that you do does not mean that we do not wish to compete. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS

So you don't have to then. For the listed mobs during the listed times.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Same thing is accomplished with a point system, and better. you still get your "competition" and the little guys still have a chance, whether you consider us a Rank A, B, or those you don't even consider worthy to have a rank to even be represented.

Seen enough. im against this IM in favor of a points system.

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll make this clear too.

Im more than willing to be raid suspended for a week, or a month, or longer, if that's what its going to take for a proper agreement for everyone. This doesn't hurt me. This doesn't hurt the smaller guilds. Taken looses the respectable number of targets we get but it also gives us a break from this toxicity in the promise of something better in the future for all of us.

Not sure if I can say that about everyone in the top Guilds though so you had better think about that.

TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...


TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

don't take what I say out of context and you will also see that I did not agree with the point system as it was currently set in stone, but a variation of it. I think its a great start to a real solution. nice try though scream socialism more

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=132779

while the point values are not set in stone. I highly support the overall idea and those that are not happy with this proposal should really give it a look.

reposted for you since you apparently missed this part

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So..
After all the talk on the point system I checked it out an read threw 12 pages of comments. The thing is dragon socialism 101. You obviously want a full blown rotation so just come out an ask for it Catherin.
I see the hardcore giving compromises, adding inny, adding it a VP kill , not attempt. Talks of adding a VP dragon to the freebie list every month.
But they haven't made 1 thing appealing to the hardcore over on that casual "point" system thread. There is no competition with a point system wtf are you talking about? you have guilds on there that have never even attempted to raid before and they get the same points as the hardcore. There is 0 competition in that and 0 compromise from you guys. Seems to me You just want to have free mobs for your guild , and that has been the whole problem from the start . Everyone thats on this point system idea should just push for a GM rotation. Because you will never get a hardcore raider to agree to some shit system like that.

No hardcore is saying yes to that point system or even trying to work with it.
At least some of the casuals are liking this idea, and trying to work with it.Getting some things changed an added in. An hopefully it will attract you at some point.
Or something else will be redrafted an bring the 2 ideas together in a more Taken friendly fashion (Xasten plz get on it lol)
Than i seen this...


TL DR If you do not /bow to my plans I will keep everyone raid suspended.
Well pretty sure this will go no where. No hardcore is going to compromise to some socialist dragon plan. Come up with something better or work this proposal more to your liking. But the point system is complete shit at the moment and ripe for abuse.

Every proposal that you don't agree with is socialism. Clearly you didn't actually read the points proposal, maybe he should have put pictures in so you can actually comprehend it. There is competition.