New ToV Racing Rules

[Raev]

My prediction is that the raid scene continues as is for another year-ish. By that point Nilbog will have finished the various Velious revamps, and they will release a fresh server with a correct timeline while resetting Sleeper's Tomb here. Most of the players who switch servers will be the more hardcore types who don't have zillions of plat amassed and want to start fresh.

There will still be sufficient players on P1999 for at least one hardcore raiding guild. Some people will stay because they want to 'finish' their characters, others because their friends are staying. This new hardcore guild will go hard in the paint for a while, but once the P1999 population continues to dwindle to the point when <1000 are online at prime time, they'll probably just agree to rotate everything outside of Vulak, Dozekar, and Avatar of War.

[Llodd]

Velious will be the servers saviour. It will fix all the problems.

Where are those false prophets now?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cut off my hands, gouge out my eyes, burn me alive....but just do NOT let casuals have anything that I want.

The burnout is real. Give it a few months and then swoop in. You'll get the sickness all the same, though.

We won't though. That's the thing. If we wanted to raid like AA we'd be doing it every single cycle every single time. We can do it sometimes in small doses like PD yesterday for 8 hours or whatever but people were miserable the entire time. The goal of BDA is to actually play the game, have fun with friends will doing so, and hopefully get some pixels in the process. Sitting at a zoneline with a bard spinning selos while we all watch a screen shared on Skype because that's microseconds faster than the bard actually bind sighting is sooooo gross. It's not even the same game at that point.

We had a nice smooth Dain kill over the weekend because Aftermath was forced to concede after snap pulling Dain, getting eaten by a train, thus turning the entire encounter into a disaster. We're playing different games. No one will admit that though.

[Cecily]

I mean Lord of Pixels 2 was funny because there was so much truth in it. If a void opens up in the top, the pixels will enslave a new, formerly casual, owner. I think ALOT of people forget that The Mystical Order was a casual guild at one point. If the cycle doesn't get broken by a mutual consensus, it will continue perpetually.

[Legday]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We had a nice smooth Dain kill over the weekend because Aftermath was forced to concede after snap pulling Dain, getting eaten by a train, thus turning the entire encounter into a disaster. We're playing different games. No one will admit that though.

No one will admit what? That A/A and the rest of the server have drastically different playstyles? That's been said hundreds of times on these forums.

It's the root cause of the issues with the raid scene. Hardcores don't want to give up mobs that they're willing to work hard for and casuals don't want to work as hard for the mobs that the hardcores don't want to give away. Casuals see it as over the top and hardcores see it as a meta game. Being better than the other guy.

So here we are, the new rules that don't fix the problem that the casual guilds set out hoping to see fixed. The only thing they do is increase the burnout factor by needing twice the amount of people to cover all of the bases. I guess that's a win for you guys.

No new rule set will ever fix the issue because the hardcore guilds will always find a way to play harder, inside of those rules, that you guys will (understandably) shake your heads in disbelief and stay away from for the most part.

Both sides think the other side needs to come closer to the other's playstyle but it will never happen. This game and this server is wide open for the taking. If there are players on this server willing to be gross and play EQ to its max then they can do that. Casuals think we're insane and they're right. Nice observation.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In 6 months AA will merge into one hardcore guild with the common goal of keeping raid loot out of the hands of casuals.

Probably true.

I think as the weather gets nicer and now that velious has been out for a while you'll really start to see people go off and do other things. The raid scene is pretty bad IMO when u get to tov/kael/ whatever crap is hotly contested, it might get a little better with lower pop but who knows. Remember though, the hardcore people in awakened/aftermath don't actually give a shit about getting new pixels or experiencing content, they just wanna feel like they're "better" than people, and that requires excluding you from content AND your "tears". All the raid discussion talks are just ways for them to see what they consider "tears" from the casual guilds and it strokes their ego. If you want to eventually see this content but not have to stare at walls for 10 hours, I think the best thing to do is just pretend that this part of the game is pay to win (fuck yeah station cash!) and just enjoy the free to play part for now and be patient. If guilds keep putting up demands for fixing the raid scene, it keeps fueling that "competitive" fire in AA. But if AA sees that no one else gives a shit, eventually they'll get bored.

All the ridiculous rules you see in place are in place because of <insert whatever iteration of top 2 guilds> doing absolutely retarded things for a video game and then complaining about the other guild. But it doesn't matter how many rules you put in place, since the people who ultimately rule on these things will still have some sort of bias in their decision (you can spin it whichever way you like idc) and you will never be able to lay out specific enough rules to get rid of any bias of human judgement, ever. The rules should be simple with room for interpretation, but since there is limited enforcement and difficulty in proving wrongdoing, punishments should be somewhat severe, otherwise you just promote the lawyerquesting/rulepushing mentality that exists here. Some people like that scene I guess tho, and I doubt it will change anytime soon.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the root cause of the issues with the raid scene. Hardcores don't want to give up mobs that they're willing to work hard for and casuals don't want to work as hard for the mobs that the hardcores don't want to give away. Casuals see it as over the top and hardcores see it as a meta game. Being better than the other guy.

We all agree on this but I don't think people consider this problem for what it is in reality. A small amount of people imposing their will on a larger one. No one tries to argue that the current way of playing was ever intended on live. So what we on the end are saying is its better to let a obsessed minority change the entire way the game is played, on server that is supposed to be for reliving classic EQ.

My sympathy is a lot greater than it is with say, casuals bitching about hard mode dungeons in WoW. If you can't do the content, get more dedicated and better as a team. But that's not an analogy on p99, because content is only hard because it is contested. On p99, they put people that literally play this game like professional as gatekeepers for content that normally wouldn't take 1/2 the effort.

Because I can separate my personal interest in pixils from my analysis of whats going on in the server, I'm sympathetic to casuals. I'm also sympathetic of people with compulsivity issues that screw their lives up trying to be number 1 on p99 -- something that shouldn't really require a human life to achieve.

[colicab]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We all agree on this but I don't think people consider this problem for what it is in reality. A small amount of people imposing their will on a larger one. No one tries to argue that the current way of playing was ever intended on live. So what we on the end are saying is its better to let a obsessed minority change the entire way the game is played, on server that is supposed to be for reliving classic EQ.

My sympathy is a lot greater than it is with say, casuals bitching about hard mode dungeons in WoW. If you can't do the content, get more dedicated and better as a team. But that's not an analogy on p99, because content is only hard because it is contested. On p99, they put people that literally play this game like professional as gatekeepers for content that normally wouldn't take 1/2 the effort.

Because I can separate my personal interest in pixils from my analysis of whats going on in the server, I'm sympathetic to casuals. I'm also sympathetic of people with compulsivity issues that screw their lives up trying to be number 1 on p99 -- something that shouldn't really require a human life to achieve.

No truer words have been spoken. This is why I quit P99. Good on you JurisDictum.

[trite]

I know it hurts to admit it but there aren't any pixels available for casual scum like us in NToV... the players who have two or three vulak items after 8 months of ToV raiding have been investing dozens of hours a week for the majority of that time.

[Raev]

Keep in mind that this whole hardcore/casual distinction is only possible due to the non-classic P1999 server specific aids known as variance.