Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Provide a magelo on what a "normal shaman" looks like, so we can all be on the same page. Are you saying normal Shaman's all have their epic?

/sigh by the time they are hitting their maximum Stamina cap, yes. An epic is just a little more useful than +however much Stamina.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/sigh by the time they are hitting their maximum Stamina cap, yes.

If a Shaman can afford their epic, they can max their STA. How is this disproving my previous points?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

And if you are talking about a pre level 60 Shaman, please show us a Magelo of that, because Loramin is NOT that hehe.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by battins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Smaller the mana pool means the shorter your smoke break. Get the larger mana pool and go afk longer. Live the high-life.

At first I was going to ignore this as a flippant comment, but you actually have a good point [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If your playstyle means burning through your Mana and HP in one or two fights, and then AFK medding until you are full ... ie. if you're playing "Wizard-style" (or actually this is how I soloed my Cleric, so maybe I should say "Cleric-style"), that's different.

Even with that playstyle, at 39 (once you get chloroplast and can recover HP quickly in downtime also) you'll want to be using your max HP just like you use your max Mana. Also, if you can't kill an extra mob using the extra mana, it's meaningless, so the +25 Wisdom would only help some small fraction of the time (when it makes the difference between being able to kill 2 vs. 3 mobs in a row).

So, with that style, from 1-38, it comes down to "will the few (if any) times you can kill an extra mob outweigh the few (if any) times having more HP saves your life?" Since avoiding one death is worth a lot more than getting one more kill, and I tend to think most of the time 25 Wis won't be enough to give you an extra kill, I'd lean towards thinking the HP is still more valuable ... but it's definitely a less clear case.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a Shaman can afford their epic, they can max their STA. How is this disproving my previous points?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you are talking about a pre level 60 Shaman, please show us a Magelo of that, because Loramin is NOT that hehe.

First off, I want to point out you've still just given up contesting any of the points I made previously. We had a good faith discussion going on: I was making rational points, you were making rational points (laced with insults) ... and then, when my points were clearly shown to be correct, you gave up debating them and started going off about Magelos.

But look, I think any intelligent reader is going to that most know Shaman <60 aren't hitting their Stamina cap, so if saying they will is the hill you want to die on, I'm 100% fine with just ending the discussion right here and leaving it up to the reader.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So if your definition of a "normal Shaman" is one with Epic, JBB, Vindi BP, then I am not sure why you have been arguing. You can max STA really easy when you have access to that level of gear.

By your own Magelo, you have disproven your idea that STA > WIS.

And again, if you are arguing pre 60 Shamans, you NEED to provide a Magelo for that. We have provided 4 Magelos so far in this thread that could be obtained before level 60, and you have provided 0.

EDIT: Took out shovel, thought that was a different one. My bad.

[loramin]

Ok, by ignoring all my points and pointing out that my 175 Stamina Magelo is too good, but hasn't maxxed Stamina (and all those contrived Stamina-only Magelos somehow represent real Shaman), you've clearly won the debate. Let's call it a day.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, by ignoring all my points and pointing out that my 175 Stamina Magelo is too good, but hasn't maxxed Stamina (and all those contrived Stamina-only Magelos somehow represent real Shaman), you've clearly won the debate. Let's call it a day.

This is not what happened at all. I did not ignore any points. The point you are missing is that a "normal Shaman" by your definition has 200k + worth of gear lol. You could easily have a few different pieces (and STA pots) to make up any lack of STA you have. I am sorry, but your character is not the only way to build a Shaman[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you continue to argue about pre 60 Shamans, you have to provide a Magelo. I am sorry that you cannot actually back up any points you have made (and it shows). Please back up your points or admit defeat.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not what happened at all. I did not ignore any points.

Bullshit. Anyone can go back just one page to see we were having a conversation. I responded to all of your points, and you just gave up and ignored all of my responses.

Similarly with:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point you are missing is that a "normal Shaman" by your definition has 200k + worth of gear lol. You could easily have a few different pieces (and STA pots) to make up any lack of STA you have. I am sorry, but your character is not the only way to build a Shaman[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm confident anyone with a brain reading will see my Magelo as an example of the high-end of what a non-raid Shaman will have as gear, and they'll see these contrived Stamina-only Magelos as ... contrived Stamina-only Maeglos. So no need for further debate there, we can drop that point and leave it to the viewing public to decide.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you continue to argue about pre 60 Shamans, you have to provide a Magelo. I am sorry that you cannot actually back up any points you have made (and it shows). Please back up your points or admit defeat.

Again, anyone reading can look back a page, see my replies to your long post, and see nothing from you. They can also see the Magelo I posted on page 1 of this discussion. I have nothing further to "prove" on that point, so if you're happy with the posts you've written so far, let's both call it a day.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am sorry, but you have been proven wrong, again.

Your example Magelo https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Loramin shows that your definition of a "normal shaman" has 200k+ worth of gear, and you refuse to show a different interpretation. Factually speaking a Shaman with 200k+ worth of gear can cap STA.

Until you show a different interpretation, you are just playing the game of "a normal shaman is whatever fits my narrative".

Reposting real information for people to read and have an actual discussion about:

1. WIS is harder to cap during the Velious era than STA generally speaking. This is WITHOUT RAID GEAR. Usually the best starting stat is the primary stat that is hardest to cap, because a capped stat isn't helping you. This means 25 WIS / 5 STA is generally the better way to go (or 25 WIS / 5 AGI for Ogres). If you don't believe me, you can create Magelos with various gear and see how the stats shake out. Remember that you also get a +50 STA buff, but only a +10 WIS buff that is an illusion, which means it falls off more often due to zoning. You can also drink a +STA potion that you can craft yourself.

2. The only reason why you would want to put 25 into STA instead is if you are planning out your gear/strategies ahead of time, and want to save a buff slot in the long run. This is because if you can cap STA without needing Riotous Health / Primal Essence, you end up freeing up a buff slot, because you do not need to cast Riotous Health on yourself. Freeing up a buff slot can be difficult to do, so this can be more important than just raw stats.

3. Starting stats will NOT really help you during the leveling process, because stats scale by level. You will need to be around level 40 before you start noticing a difference. Generally speaking if you are concerned about starting stats, you are looking towards the end game, where those points end up giving you the most returns.

4. 25 STA gives you 75HP at level 60. It gives you something like 30 HP at level 30. Neither 75HP nor 30HP will save your life a significant amount of times. If this wasn't true, everybody would be running two HP earrings instead of a stat earring + Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring. They would be getting https://wiki.project1999.com/Star_of_Eyes instead. Generally speaking Shamans do not do this, because the stat penalty from putting on Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring is insignificant. Having another inventory slot open for a bag is better, and Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring is easier to use because it does not require a target. If losing 35 HP or more on your earring doesn't change how often you die, why do you think the 25 STA will make a difference? Having a Hammered Golden Hoop instead of the Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring would give you that 75HP plus 8 more STA, and yet people wear Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring instead.

5. Shamans can in fact run out of mana before dying, which is why the +25 WIS can give you a small chance to survive a bad encounter. Similar to the +25 STA, this chance is very small. The usual culprit for this both Pre-Torpor and Post-Torpor are strings of resists and/or root breaks. Shaman spells are expensive, which means fizzling, resists, and root breaks can really add up quick if you are not careful. Here is a video of me fighting Bravatar: https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?t=1244 . As you can see at that timestamp, I am low on both HP and Mana. If he had given me one or two more unlucky resists, I would be completely out of Mana. If I was at 2% mana and 40% health, I would probably gate for safety because a double attack from Bravatar would get me very close to dying. Remember, this is me fighting Bravatar in mid-tier raid gear, so a lesser geared Shaman would be even lower on Mana.