Game Mechanics: PvP Damage Reduction should not apply to self-casted spells until Sept 1999 era

[Dolalin]

I had a look and actually I can't see references to the Canny line being affected by this PvP damage reduction. So perhaps direct Mana conversion spells weren't affected, just the necro dot versions.

[DMN]

All seems pretty convoluted with us just guessing about stuff. I remember something related that might even complicate it a bit more-- or clarify it. The necromancer "heal other/empathy line" was a bit strange in that the direct heal spells -- the spells that were NOT a "heal over time" were always a 1 for 1 trade. So if you gave up 100 life, you healed 100 life. But the over time heals were always more effective -- and it was in that same range of 25% or so being talked about. Meaning if it was a Dot/HoT version of the spell line you might give up 100 hit points but you healed 125.

perhaps this quirk of pvp damage reduction only carried over to damage over time effects.

edit:ssomething else i recall was always keeping disease cloud up on my SK who was on PvP. server This made me essentially immune to mez effects. So since disease cloud only does 1 damage per tick, when they did the pvp damage reduction, they must be have been rounding up.

[Dolalin]

These bug threads are always journeys and should be viewed that way. I like to document my thought process, not just the facts that I dig up -- it's just as important. We always get to the truth at the end.

[Dolalin]

So this thread is a bit of a misnomer. I created a wizard on Green and nuked myself -- there is no PvP spell damage reduction in place on Green at present (I took the full 4 damage of Shock of Frost). So that seems fine.

The real issue is that the Necro mana conversion line is using unclassic HP drain values. They changed these in 2006 according to Lucy, I'm sure to eliminate the PvP damage reduction quirk and just give these spells the effective drain they always had from September 1999 onwards.

Arch Lich

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 53 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 36 per tick"
2002-03-19 05:50 Changed Slot 3 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 31 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 53 per tick"
2002-03-19 05:50 Changed Slot 2 from "Increase Mana by 20 per tick" to "Increase Mana by 35 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...16&source=Live

(Note: Arch Lich actually got buffed in 2002, so take the HP drain value of 31 per tick instead)

Demi Lich

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 48 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 32 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...11&source=Live

Lich

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 32 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 22 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...44&source=Live

Call of Bones

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 16 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 11 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...43&source=Live

Allure of Death

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 8 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 6 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...42&source=Live

Dark Pact

2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 7 from "Decrease Hitpoints by 4 per tick" to "Decrease Hitpoints by 3 per tick"

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...41&source=Live

Live values quoted above suggest 75% PvP spell damage, and so does Alla, but newsgroups are suggesting 60%, so I will need to figure out which is correct and if both are, when it was changed.

One thing is for sure, the Necro mana conversion spells should be draining more HP than they are at present, and should do so up until September 1999 when the PvP damage reduction came into play.

[Nirgon]

You should definitely nuke or rain yourself for full damage for a solid era

[Dolalin]

It looks like the PvP spell damage was 66% from every reasonable source I can find, eg:

4/22/01

All spells that reduce hit points(including DD, DOT, Necromancer Dark Pact
line, etc), do 66% of the damage they would to do a mob, when cast on a
player by another player.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Q/FP0ZjHbzSwYJ

Plus the math on those ratios up above lines up with 66%, even the Demi Lich hp values (ie, 32/48 = 0.666) . I have no idea what those numpties on Alla were talking about.

Depending on how P99 does its mechanics (is Lich self-damage on P99 being affected by PvP reduction code on Blue?), either the Lich line HP costs should be raised as above (ie, revert the 2006 changes on Lucy), or the HP cost should simply be raised temporarily then lowered back down in September 1999 to reflect what they would become after the PvP spell damage reduction was implemented.

This thread is now named strangely so mods feel free to rename it to "Necromancer Lich line should cost more HP until September 1999 patch era" or similar.

[DMN]

That lucy change history is just bizarre within a week or 2 they changed the lich spells 3 different times back and forth from the same values. I'm not sure what to draw from any of that...

I'd like to see what the original spdat says for lich. I haven't really seen any evidence the current lich line is wrong, only that it might be possible. In fact, you found at least 2 or 3 people saying that the lich line was in fact doing less damage than what they thought it should be. Those were not people on p99, but people playing sony's/verant's servers. Though i think only one of them was posing from the "classic time period".

[DMN]

And btw they monkeyed around a decent bit with PvP damage, and would have different abilities getting different reductions from patch to patch(ie sometimes all abilities doing 50%, then next patch DD spells doing 50% damage but dot's now doing 75%, etc.)Just like the one you cited above harm touch having it's own unique multiplier for a period of time. Hard to draw any sound conclusions from peoples contemporary comments when the patch changes were so ephemeral in regard to PvP damage.

[Dolalin]

Well I'm the numpty now. I finally loaded up the spells data for P99 and the correct values are already in the spells file.

I guess I'll just ask a necro to tell me how much hp he's losing per tick in CoB / Lich and we'll see if that's as expected, and then if so we can resolve this.

(I'll just check next time... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'm allowed a stinker bug every now and then, right?)