Freedom From Atheism Foundation

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by Shamalam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

How rational and scientific of you to come to such a conclusion. Materialism and moral relativity are what lead you to believe that if you deny something it negates the truth of it?

Even in scientific terms there would have to be a force/first cause for something to come from nothing essentially which is a huge leap in logic. It is absolutely absurd for a person to conclude that the universe and all of creation has design and purpose but it is perfectly rational to assume that everything that exist sprang from nothing and self organized itself into such a way as to make everything work in harmony. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ahldagor]

so much talk of logic without it being mentioned that logic is the rule of non contradiction within rhetoric. rhetoric is a method of persuasion that uses logical arguments in order to establish an authority over the convinced. you're all wanting that power of authority like good god seekers.

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by Shamalam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, there does not HAVE to be a force behind the start of the universe. I'm denying it.

WHAT NOW

Who created god? Who created the creator of god? Who created the creator of the creator of god? X Infinite.

There has to be a force behind the start of the universe. Its undeniable.

Upon reading this thought process it would actually be logical that in fact there was nothing and nothing created itself. Now, as a logical critical thinking minded, Agnostic as myself would have to believe that just can't be possible but with that in mind, that is clearly the only way anything could be possible, God or no god.

The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light from the big bang and something was festering in the center of the universe, expanding and contracting til its inevitable explosion.

[Versch]

[QUOTE=Daldolma;1459731]

Originally Posted by Versch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not really true. a lot of science begins with faith. not many scientists set out to prove a hypothesis they don't believe in. in fact, many of the underlying premises of modern science sound in belief. for example, much of our space program has been influenced by a search for extraterrestrial lifeforms. we have no compelling reason to believe they exist. but many scientists believe they do, and so we hypothesize about everything from what they would look like to what they would want to where we may find them.

you can treat the idea of a supreme deity as a scientific hypothesis, just as much as you can treat extraterrestrial life or the big bang as one. it's just so far removed from anything we can prove that it frustrates the scientific process

Would you not credit that to something more along the lines of probability and statistics then? Considering what we know about our world and the sheer vastness of the universe, probability would say that other worlds like ours must exist.

I have no qualms with the idea of a supreme being, but I do take issue with humans believing that it would solely watch our world and treat our species special. That's some seriously egotistic line of thinking.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Versch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because, that is the end for a lot of people. God did it and that is final. Put all your faith in that and never question it.

Religion and science are mutually exclusive realms of thought. One is faith based and one is fact based. The quicker people understand this, the sooner these silly debates will go away.

That's a pretty broad generalization. Trust me I've met plenty of those type of people. Its really a shame. But I have also met plenty of people who were very staunch in their belief in evolution who couldn't explain even the most basic of the scientific principals behind it. Couldn't co.e up with a reason beyond, "well its just the best answer and if you don't believe it you're holding yourself back." So blind faith goes both ways in my experience.

[Versch]

Originally Posted by Rhuma7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Upon reading this thought process it would actually be logical that in fact there was nothing and nothing created itself. Now, as a logical critical thinking minded, Agnostic as myself would have to believe that just can't be possible but with that in mind, that is clearly the only way anything could be possible, God or no god.

The universe is expanding faster than the speed of light from the big bang and something was festering in the center of the universe, expanding and contracting til its inevitable explosion.

I'm of the opinion that we're limited by our own minds. The concept of beginning and end is so ingrained in everything we know, that that is all we know and we cannot escape that convention. The universe may not even be contained by a "beginning" or "end". Of course, now we're venturing into some theoretical crap.

[Shamalam]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'll just have to live with the fact that you're wrong. Other than that. Nothing.

I can totally live with that! It's actually be working out pretty splendidly so far!

[Shamalam]

inb4 been*

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Shamalam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can totally live with that! It's actually be working out pretty splendidly so far!

Good for you. I'm not here to judge.

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so much talk of logic without it being mentioned that logic is the rule of non contradiction within rhetoric. rhetoric is a method of persuasion that uses logical arguments in order to establish an authority over the convinced. you're all wanting that power of authority like good god seekers.

The balls on this one. Read your own statement then get back to us.