Munich Mall Shooting -

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, as much I like this debate here right now, at the end we just have diffrent opinions on this topic.

If america wants to keep ther weapons even though statistic shows that with good gun laws ther are less killings, than its fine with me.
Thats a topic america have to slove on ther own.

It's not about guns. The US has more murders per capita THAT DONT INVOLCE FIREARMS than a lot of other countries have total.

Getting rid of (legal) guns might reduce gun violence and might reduce overall violence thereby... but the US is still more violent than elsewhere anyways

But if you look at demographic slices of the US instead of the whole? Guess who owns the most guns but commit a very small amount of the country's violent crime? The well-off folk. Guess who own few guns but commit a majority of the violent crime? The poor folk.

There are problems that need fixing here that are a bigger contributor to violent crime than inanimate objects, and those fixes wouldn't involve disarming law-abiding citizens.

Guns don't cause crime. The worst mass killings are planes and fertilizer and trucks, not guns. Guns DO help stop crime. Guns DO have other purposes besides self-defense.

Too bad a shitload of people are ignorant and dependent and thin-skinned. They fear what they don't understand, devour anything they see on TV or the web that meshes with their preconceived notions as fact without critical thought, and are throw a fit any time someone else does something that upsets their delicate sensibilities.

[Tecmos Deception]

Sorry shit grammar and such. Phone keyboard, can't be assed to be too correct.

[Domo]

My english is worse then your grammar Tecmos, but I get your point.
I dont live in the USA and dont have all infos, therefore I dont have the "whole picture".
But I still think that you could save a lot of lifes by putting some gunlaws in place.

Nice talking to ya mate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jarnauga]

i wonder why crime rates are so much higher in the usa compared to the rest of the western world then.. you guys have to stop with your failed logic "hurr if criminals can get weapons everyone should be allowed to to be safe durr" because if it was true, the usa would be the safest place on earth, and it's just not the case:

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I would find it interesting to find out how many cops die per 100 000 in the US compared to other countries but find it hard to get data

Also stop using Switzerland as an example: while it is true they can keep the weapon they use during military training at home, they can't keep any ammo, and buying ammo is heavily restricted.. so heavily restricted that you dumbass would cry "over my dead body"

lastly, it's funny that numbers don't support the "hurr there's only high murders in areas where there's guns laws"

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[Jarnauga]

also +1 for tecmos, i agree it's not just guns, there's also a larger problem at hand.. i know it's not exactly what you said and you largely disagree with me, but i still agree on that part

[Lojik]

I think the NRA releases numbers on supposedly how many crimes are [directly] averted due to gun ownership. While I think the number is total BS, I do think the fact that some people might have a gun in their home deters a significant amount of home invasion type crimes, probably a lot of other crime as well. Also, a lot of gun violence is accounted for by either suicide or gang/drug related activity, that is to say if you're not planning on killing yourself or involved in the illegal drug trade your odds of being shot are pretty low. The biggest problems are probably black on black gun crimes, and I believe most of these are with illegally obtained firearms. That's not to say that we don't have some work to do, however.

Also it's statistically more dangerous to have a pool on your property than a gun.

[NegaStoat]

As was previously mentioned, different locations in America generate vastly different statistics on shootings and gun related crimes, even when similar population totals are compared. I find this part of the conversation is glossed over far too much.

I live in Northern California, and our gun related crimes are comparable to Sweden, Denmark, and other European regions. The same can be said for other parts of the nation. I do NOT want my gun rights to be modified in a more restrictive manner because of what's going on in Detroit, New York, and Chicago. I'm just asking for fair representation for my interests with the issue, and that's not happening.

[fash]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i wonder why crime rates are so much higher in the usa compared to the rest of the western world then.

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I answered this in another thread and you had nothing to say. Crime rates are so much higher because of diversity. US is the most diverse country in the world. Chile is also very ethnically diverse. Normalize for diversity, and you'll get an answer to your question.

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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That graph has gun deaths, not homicide.

[Jarnauga]

also, since nobody cares: the munich killer had no ties to daesh, had converted to christianity and was a admirer of breivik, shouts of killing foreigners are confirmed, 3 turks, 3 kosovars and 1 greek killed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But I still think that you could save a lot of lifes by putting some gunlaws in place.

Nice talking to ya mate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But here's the thing. You could save a lot of lives by outlawing a lot of different things.

A ton of people die in automobile accidents (or intentional automobile violence) every year. But no one would ever suggest that the fix for automobile accidents is to ban automobiles. No one would ever suggest that the only people who should be allowed to use automobiles are mass transit drivers. Cars serve a valuable purpose in society, and no one actually believes that the cars themselves are the problem. It's bad drivers who are the problem, whether that means a 91-year-old who's mostly blind and deaf is still getting behind the wheel or it's a drunk driver or it's someone who speeds all the time or it's an idiot parent who leaves their kids in the car in the summer time... it's people who don't use automobiles properly who cause most accidents.

So to combat automobile accidents, driver's training programs are more rigorous. The goverment runs ad campaigns to remind people of the dangers of distracted driving. There's signs by construction zones reminding you to drive slowly or face stiffer penalties for traffic offenses (or hitting a worker). Etc. And if they want to reduce automobile accidents even more, they'd require refresher courses from drivers and do regular eye exams of drivers over 60 and spend more money maintaining roadways and more money enforcing traffic offenses.

But they wouldn't ban vehicles.


Guns are the same way. They serve a valuable purpose in society (albeit many people question the truth of this... but that's mostly due to ignorance about a number of things, and therefore fear of things that are not understood, imo). Guns don't kill people; people who use guns improperly kill people.

But for the reasons mentioned above, ignorance of things like how firearms work (omg AR-15 that must stand for FULLY AUTOMATIC GUN OF DEATH AND THE NRA WANTS EVERYONE TO HAVE THEM WITHOUT BACKGROUND CHECKSSSSSSS), ignorance of how law enforcement "protects" people (when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away. You don't neglect smoke detectors or fire extinguishers or teaching your kids what to do in a fire just because the fire department is the ones "in charge" of protecting us from housefires right? So why would you neglect firearms and some training and some knowledge about defending your home from criminals just because the police are the ones "in charge" of protecting you from criminals?), ignoring the fact that governments have more than once been less than kind to disarmed populations (lol it won't happen to us!!), too many people being fucking sheep who buy into whatever they see parroted on TV/facebook/whatever...

Because of all that shit and more, people think guns kill people, think there's no need for firearms in "civilized" society (lol), etc.