#121
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Thanks for the reply!
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Racials do indeed matter the most when soloing. Shamans are one of the classes that can solo, group, and raid equally well. Many people pick classes like Shaman or Enchanter specifically because they can solo with their character when groups/raids are not available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq39ybDWx-k - Here is an example of a simulated raid buffing session buffing 10 people. Racial Regeneration would save a Shaman 30 seconds at best for recovery time, which is not going to help the raid in any meaningful way. No competent raid is Shaman buffing 10 people 30 seconds before a big fight. You can extrapolate these raid results to group play as well. Can you think of a time where you spent this much mana in a 12 minute period in a group? If not, then you would realize that you probably aren't even getting 30 seconds of improved recovery time per hour in a group, as you are more likely to be at full mana and hp. The nice thing about groups is they split the duties. Quote:
If you are a casual player who only plays a few hours a day, you are playing the game inefficiently anyway. There is no way you can "Min/Max leveling" by doing this. It doesn't really make sense to say "Barbarians are the Min/Max race for leveling inefficiently". At that point you could make a "Min/Max" for every possible thing a player could do. This would completely destroy the normal definition of "Min/Max", because nobody knows what you are trying to "Min/Max". By default Min/Max means the best possible character you could create, assuming you got to level 60, have the best gear, and have all your spells. Ogre is the best Min/Max Shaman due to FSI.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 01-18-2024 at 01:27 PM..
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#122
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Almost nobody reaches actual end game everquest, where you're BIS and have no more progression. End Game for most people is raiding with some mix of high end/BIS pieces, or farming items. You're going to be ahead by some noticeable amount on both of these goals if you're using a Barbarian vs. an Ogre, and it will likely take a very substantial amount of time for the Ogre to catch up. They will never catch up in a raiding context until you reach BIS, you will always be a fixed amount of DKP ahead on the Barbarian until you run out of things to spend DKP on. If there is a quantifiable difference in farming speed or success rate with having FSI they will eventually catch up with the Barbarian's head start, but it needs to be quantified to see whether it is actually reasonable for that to happen. As a more concrete example of what I'm talking about, if you ask the question "which race lets me farm the most stuff by 2030 on this new shaman I'm making", the answer is probably Barbarian. I'm really skeptical that the other racials do enough to make up for having potentially weeks of additional time with Torpor.
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Jayya - 60 Rogue, Officer <Auld Lang Syne>
Sanctum Low Man Vindi Kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZfNjvsDRE | |||
#123
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Changing the definition of Min/Max to "who can level the fastest" is not the correct way to approach this debate.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#124
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Several of the racials theoretically help you accomplish stuff better in the end game, like FSI. The XP penalty reduction gives you more time in the end game by getting you there faster. When you're measuring the amount of stuff you're actually going to accomplish in the end game because of your racial, its a solid contender because of the additional time you get. If making a choice causes you to accomplish less for a character, that's not the min-max choice. Targeting for optimal theoretical end game where you have everything is almost always a bad idea.
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Jayya - 60 Rogue, Officer <Auld Lang Syne>
Sanctum Low Man Vindi Kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZfNjvsDRE | |||
#125
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If your definition of Min/Max is "who can get full BiS the fastest", there is no strategy you can employ to guarantee being the first person to full BiS gear. This is because it is 100% possible that the item you need to complete full BiS only drops when an opposing guild kills the mob. Someone in the opposing guild, who spent 2 more months leveling than you did, could get BiS gear faster than yourself, even though they took longer to start raiding. Even if your guild is monopolizing a specific target, that doesn't mean the item will drop when you are there, unless you can make it to every single kill. You also need to consider the possibility you lose the item to someone else bidding more DKP. There are plenty of factors completely out of your control that slow down your progress. Quote:
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | ||||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 01-18-2024 at 02:18 PM..
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#126
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You accomplish more faster by being 60 faster, which makes the choice that gets you to 60 faster a strong end game benefit even though it doesn't do anything once you reach 60.
__________________
Jayya - 60 Rogue, Officer <Auld Lang Syne>
Sanctum Low Man Vindi Kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZfNjvsDRE | |||
#127
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Lets assume you are playing as efficiently as possible with plenty of twink gear. In PoM rat maze I was getting 1 level per 20 hours or so. That means going from 56-60 takes 100 hours. Leveling from 1-50 with heavy twinkage is something like 1 hour per level, which means 50 hours. 200ish hours to get from 1-60 on a twinked character seems reasonable. A Barbarian gets 40 extra hours of endgame at best, assuming you think FSI and Regen provide no increase in leveling speed. 40 hours is like 5 Ayillish kills due to her respawn timer, assuming you got every kill. That is something like 25kpp over an Ogre, or a bit more DKP. There is no evidence to suggest 40 extra hours of raiding over a characters total lifespan is enough to guarantee full BiS gear earlier than another player. The game just doesn't work like that.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#128
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Jayya - 60 Rogue, Officer <Auld Lang Syne>
Sanctum Low Man Vindi Kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZfNjvsDRE | |||
#129
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Realistically speaking you have no evidence to suggest the 40 hours (at best) of extra endgame will end up being better than having FSI for your character's entire playtime. You have no evidence to support your position, and you are changing the normal definition of Min/Max. I don't see any victory for you here in this debate so far.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#130
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… you’re the one who is defining a very narrow category of dragons in an mmo as min max.
It’s a mmo - solo has nothing to do with min max.
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Gorgen (Blue) - Agnostic Troll Warrior of the XXXI Dung | ||
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