Paladin vs SK

[Faiding]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage is based on the order of aggroing the mob, nor threat. Warriors superior until paladins get that lolsy hammer from griegs end. Not one fight in velious has adds during it because the combat scripting engine wasn't really used to great effect until pop. What game is it you are playing?

Yeah, definitely not any scripting/adds in Coldain Ring War or Ring of Vulak...

What game are you playing?

[Raev]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a terrible argument. When you compare to just a single Rogue or Monk, the Warrior's edge over knights in damage output doesn't count for much, when you compare that edge to the damage done by a full group it is next to nothing.

An epic Paladin will put out about 35 dps. An epic warrior with 41% haste (granted, all this shit is WAY harder to get) and VoG will put out 60. A really elite group will put out 250 dps, so the Warrior is helping his group kill 10% faster. Thats not trivial.

Originally Posted by Daldaen

No snap aggro so you have to wait before debuffing stuff. Can't aggro mobs so that they may be root or mezzed CCd unless you attack them...

This is like ordering mac and cheese and you get a steak. BUT THERE IS NO CHEESE SAUCE you say. Well, stop whining about the cheese and eat some fucking steak. When you have a Warrior main tanking, everything changes because the group has to play around the limitations of Warrior threat. The enchanter needs to root or blur mezzed mobs, the shaman either gets to tank a bit or wait on the debuffs, and the monk/rogue need to FD/evade a bit more. This really isn't a big deal. Sure, stuff doesn't get slowed as quickly . . . but who cares? It keeps the cleric from falling asleep between 5k complete heals. And in return for this you get a tank with the best HP/AC in the game, 25 dps (nontrivial as I said earlier), and the potential for evasive/defensive discs when a really tough mob rolls around. I think that's an easy win.

The reason warriors get a bad rep as group tanks is that most of the leveling warriors have some trash gear like a Yak Scimitar. Once those VP weapons come out, warrior aggro is really not bad. Inconsistent, but not bad.

Where paladins (and shadowknights) really shine IMO is tanking raid trash. If I had a ToV east raid, for example, I'd want paladins tanking just about everything, even the wurms. I want a paladin with rock solid aggro so that my shamans can straight up chain Turgur's/Togors, enchanters can tash instantly, and so on and they get slowed within 20 seconds. Then the clerics can go back to facerolling their keyboards.

[buffmagnum]

The easiest way to tell SK are BETTER than paladins is the first expansion. Iksar SK will always be better. I feel bad for those who play pally, never get a group cause everyone would rather have SK/warrior. Girls do well playing paladin...this is the troll section right?

[Arteker]

uhm paladin sky loot isnt as bad if u understand we got armour , the quests are mainly garbage . wind etched armour of ro >valorium .

paladin dont have insta invis or fd or snare fear . we got roots , stuns , and pacify and heals and da .

i dont like this kind of posts because its like playing who has the biggest cock and in general is full of bad information and topics.


Having a 60 paladin and a level 60 sk having solo with both to 60 i found out than paladin kinda solo faster up till 52 , if sk go fear kite he can do it fast in bw and kc grindin .

Tanking both the same but different, paladin agro is kinda superior to sk only if the paladin know whats doing .

paladin epic isnt a dps weapon but a tank weapon, thats why it have a AC and a agro proc. sk epic is a dps weapon with a survival proc.

both chars have different roles in raid , sk is a puller while a paladin if a excellent patch healer in raid.

in general both class are very different .

and always the best duo with paladin was enchanter and for sk cleric.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is indeed a bad argument. Nobody wants wars for the damage output. Nobody hates tank knights because of low dps. All tanks have crappy DPS, and if the tanks dps makes a difference then you are doing it wrong. Grind groups, Velious or not, need snap aggro, and they need it more in Velious BECAUSE the mobs hit like freight trains. In a grind group, I'd rather have a knight any day over a War. Velious bosses, well you'll need a war period for most of them, so yeah. Knights are for ramp and offtanking in Velous end game encounters.

Its not their damage output it is the less damage they take from their super high Damage Mitigation that is the game breaker. You probably don't play a Healer Class. No Mana on Cleric and you could be in deep doo doo. Hell a Bard can probably put out more DPS as a Tank but how long you think it will last getting hit in Velious. There are a lot more aspects to the game than crowd control to not die in Velious.

But yeah I will give you credit for a SK and Pally having a LOT better agro control. Heck a Ranger has even better agro but good luck with them tanking a Raid Boss. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But on my Cleric I want a big fat ugly Ogre Warrior as the Tank. IF things go bad they maybe can run the mobs to the zone line and live. Good luck having that happen on a Half Elf Pally.

[Tuljin]

This is an excerpt of my view of the hybrid phenomenon that I posted in a Ranger thread -



In the broadest sense, there are two types of people who play EQ - those who would consider playing a caster class and those who wouldn't. For those who wouldn't play a caster, hybrid is completely out of the question. Not only are they "weaker" than pure melee classes, you have the spells to worry about as well.

Someone who wants to play a caster class has lots of options. Really all caster classes are played quite heavily, with Wizard and Mage being significantly less played than the rest. If you roll a Shaman, Cleric, or Enchanter you will always get a group. If you roll a Shaman or Enc (or Mage if you're not a nub) you will solo farm the best cash camps in the game.

Why would anybody roll a hybrid?

The reason why, as previously mentioned, a Hybrid will either be awesome or a total nub is because of the caster/melee dilemma. The nub will be either a "melee" player or a "caster" player that doesn't have a full knowledge of either side of the spectrum. The awesome players rolled their hybrid with the specific intent of taking advantage of everything the class offers. Not only does this player understand magic spells, he understands the "EQ 101" of mob placement (tanking) and mob behavior.

Why is SK the most popular hybrid? Its not the "best" hybrid. It is the most similar to a pure melee with the ability to feign death. This is the class that brings the most players from the "melee" side of the spectrum. Not to mention theyre evil, menacing, and "not gay" which also attracts a melee only player. Players from the "caster" side will consider all three and make a choice based on what he thinks would be the best suited to his play style.



Id say this is pretty accurate, and you can see it in this thread.

In the world of P99 with facerolling CH clerics who make you clinch your asshole waiting for a CH and Enchanters who don't even charm pets and AOE mez ugly trains all the way to 60, its nice to be able to split mobs yourself, as well as heal, LOH, etc. I played Warrior a bit and the whole time I just said "gee, I miss my magical powers, I'm sick of depending on other people to keep me alive" so I picked a hybrid with the ability set for my playstyle.

Many people get into hybrids with the wrong idea of what they're for - the DPS argument isn't even worth anyones time. Hybrid DPS sucks, period. No matter what.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage is based on the order of aggroing the mob, nor threat. Warriors superior until paladins get that lolsy hammer from griegs end. Not one fight in velious has adds during it because the combat scripting engine wasn't really used to great effect until pop. What game is it you are playing?

Yes, this is known. What about it? I didn't say it was because of aggro.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its not their damage output it is the less damage they take from their super high Damage Mitigation that is the game breaker. You probably don't play a Healer Class. No Mana on Cleric and you could be in deep doo doo. Hell a Bard can probably put out more DPS as a Tank but how long you think it will last getting hit in Velious. There are a lot more aspects to the game than crowd control to not die in Velious.

But yeah I will give you credit for a SK and Pally having a LOT better agro control. Heck a Ranger has even better agro but good luck with them tanking a Raid Boss. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But on my Cleric I want a big fat ugly Ogre Warrior as the Tank. IF things go bad they maybe can run the mobs to the zone line and live. Good luck having that happen on a Half Elf Pally.

I have played several healers. I like consistent snap aggro over occasional mana spikes anyday in non-endgame mob groups.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where paladins (and shadowknights) really shine IMO is tanking raid trash. If I had a ToV east raid, for example, I'd want paladins tanking just about everything, even the wurms. I want a paladin with rock solid aggro so that my shamans can straight up chain Turgur's/Togors, enchanters can tash instantly, and so on and they get slowed within 20 seconds. Then the clerics can go back to facerolling their keyboards.

QFT

[Loadsamoney]

Has anyone actually seen the DPS a Paladin can put out when (s)he is playing the class to its fullest and has the gear? Pally epic with 41% haste belt, the epics proc, the secondary proc you get from Divine Might, and Str/Dex capped to max out slashing DPS and procs, the numbers they can put out (relative to their class) are pretty scary. That and the combination of Bash with the epic and the availability of stuns (and both procs count as stuns, if I remember correctly) makes the Paladin an absolute TERROR against casters, especially undead casters.