First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[Ecguy]

Their game isn't numbers, its mobilization. Period. While it does help to have a bunch of geared alts to camp out near spawns, the bottom line is if you don't have the organization to get those numbers onto the mob, you aren't going to get it. This not only encourages competition but also discourages people from poopsocking.

Let's use Trak as an example. The other day fe/ib got a Trak engage with just a few people in the zone. You guys were able to get your raid force in and down trak in about ~2minutes. This took skill, organization, mobilization, and was a good kill. These are the kinds of things we want to encourage here, not planting 50 people at trak spawn and having me turn you all into boats.

The tactics are different, but it's still about numbers. Characters are at various locations logged out. People have armies of alts in an effort to get a raid kill.

Let's talk big picture raiding on p99. The problem is lack of content due to artificial population distribution of raid level characters. Guilds are encouraged by the system to place as many characters on as many relevant targets as possible (logged out/in whatever).

Numbers + organization + dedication or something like that is the model for success here. If you don't have enough people willing to get on at that 4am call, you're out of luck. A small, highly skilled and organized force can't statistically compete in a sustained manner.

I think it would be awesome if a guild could raid boss encounters without having a ton of alts. Is that achieved by some type of instance like feature? Not sure, but to pre-empt the howls of, "that's not classic": neither is the population structure of p99. That unique feature requires a unique solution, if the server is interested in an increased population level.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a level playing field. Both Sirken and I have said this. Everyone's got the same chance to compete. As brut stated above, you're trading one kind of sock for another, possibly more soiled sock.

There's been some good idea's from the raid community on how to improve the raid scene, I just don't think this is one of them.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious is the solution. All of this is basic economics need more targets to spread out demand.

The reason velious is a solution is because it opens up the world for everyone to hypothetically get more slices of loot pie. An easy way to solve this while kunark is still in play is to remove VP training. This will force TMO to legitimately defend the zone instead of the current scenario where they can train an entire raid force with a skeleton crew until they decide to kill the targets at their leisure. This means other guilds will have a better chance at the non VP targets when TMO/FE/IB work for those kills. This would be especially easy to see during full repops where TMO can leave VP till the end of the night while they lock it down with trains. Without the threat of trains VP would have to be the priority over all other targets lest their precious PD loot fall into the hands of the unwashed masses.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason velious is a solution is because it opens up the world for everyone to hypothetically get more slices of loot pie. An easy way to solve this while kunark is still in play is to remove VP training. This will force TMO to legitimately defend the zone instead of the current scenario where they can train an entire raid force with a skeleton crew until they decide to kill the targets at their leisure. This means other guilds will have a better chance at the non VP targets when TMO/FE/IB work for those kills. This would be especially easy to see during full repops where TMO can leave VP till the end of the night while they lock it down with trains. Without the threat of trains VP would have to be the priority over all other targets lest their precious PD loot fall into the hands of the unwashed masses.

We can defend the zone without our raid force. Been proven time and time again.

[Origin]

Originally Posted by Ecguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The tactics are different, but it's still about numbers. Characters are at various locations logged out. People have armies of alts in an effort to get a raid kill.

Let's talk big picture raiding on p99. The problem is lack of content due to artificial population distribution of raid level characters. Guilds are encouraged by the system to place as many characters on as many relevant targets as possible (logged out/in whatever).

Numbers + organization + dedication or something like that is the model for success here. If you don't have enough people willing to get on at that 4am call, you're out of luck. A small, highly skilled and organized force can't statistically compete in a sustained manner.

I think it would be awesome if a guild could raid boss encounters without having a ton of alts. Is that achieved by some type of instance like feature? Not sure, but to pre-empt the howls of, "that's not classic": neither is the population structure of p99. That unique feature requires a unique solution, if the server is interested in an increased population level.

Words of wisdom.

[cs616]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's understandable that you'd be upset. FE/IB invested a significant amount of time and effort to ensure that VS pop was theirs. With that many people, it should have been. We laugh our asses off every time (and it's happened alot) we make your collective guild waste its entire week in that boring pit.

You think you're offering a rational alternative, but you're really just throwing a temper tantrum and attempting to get the rules changed.
(See Nizzar's thread)

Was this supposed to be a response to me? I don't support Origins idea and I've been playing here way to long to be upset about one mob. I replied to this thread specifically to respond to your snarky comment.

However, since Derubael has so kindly asked us to stay on topic, I'm going to refrain from responding any further. Have fun with your endless bickering that will ultimately lead to nothing.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by cs616 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Was this supposed to be a response to me? I don't support Origins idea and I've been playing here way to long to be upset about one mob. I replied to this thread specifically to respond to your snarky comment.

However, since Derubael has so kindly asked us to stay on topic, I'm going to refrain from responding any further.





Have fun with your endless bickering that will ultimately lead to nothing.

Not responding... defined

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Ecguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it would be awesome if a guild could raid boss encounters without having a ton of alts. Is that achieved by some type of instance like feature? Not sure, but to pre-empt the howls of, "that's not classic": neither is the population structure of p99. That unique feature requires a unique solution, if the server is interested in an increased population level.

Nothing will ever be done by the staff. They have said many times, it is up to the players to deal with it. As you can see they are doing a fantastic job.

I'm sure that most of the people that are able to raid here would be willing to work out a schedule or the dreaded rotation, but if there is just one group of people who won't...it doesn't work. The sad truth is that being a dickhead is very effective in a game like EQ, and you usually come out on top when you are one.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can defend the zone without our raid force. Been proven time and time again.

No it hasn't. Training has ALWAYS been the policy in VP. If you're so confident why don't you sign a no-training clause for VP?

[Cecily]

I hate that word... snarky.

[Brut]

Would srsly suggest putting back the ruling Ambrotos (I think? not sure, the old server chat thread is deleted methinks) made at one point wherein you weren't allowed to pull majority of raid targets out of their spawn areas. Draco had to be engaged in graveyard, Inny had to be fought at 2nd floor, there was something about not kiting entirety of PoFear while engaging CT, et cetera regarding maestros and whatnot. Most every outdoor dragon is currently done via parking raid force as far away from the spawn point as possible so you can do a decades long Tal/Sev/Fay pull and sluggishly log in/hammer/ejac the raid and form groups since the dragons takes around 5minutes to stroll through their zones. Inny's just pulled to the zonein with tons of adds over and over until one raid gets lucky and manages to kill it without wiping. Actually having to move the raid to the target instead of pulling the target to the raid would look more like racing, and would potentially reduce some of the QQ about trains and sketchy pulls.

Hard to monitor though and would probably just result in raid forces being camped closer to the mobs, so dunno. I did like that the ruling resulted in one Fear raid back during BDAvsTMOraptured where both raids were clearing trash mobs scouting each other until one side felt like the zone had been cleared enough to try to kill CT. Looked way more like proper competition than what you see currently with bards kiting the zone around as their teammates smash their faces on their keyboards hoping they might drop the potato-man before everyone dies/desyncs.

Not really sure if it'd work on outdoors dragons anyway since they got a prty large pathing area, but Inny/CT it made a whole lot of sense.