Bard Fixes

mokfarg · #1 05-09-2010, 08:55 AM

I have noticed lately it appears to be a lot of bard fixes being patched in. To those who play bards, how is playing a bard these days on the server? I know at a point on this server, they were quite buggy.

Jify · #2 05-09-2010, 10:03 AM

Songs are twistable, classic swarm kiting is still broken, and AE kiting is almost impossible.

Basically, it's much better than it was, but we still lack the soloability we used to have. If you plan on grouping, everything will appear almost perfect to you! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

astuce999 · #3 05-09-2010, 12:15 PM

Being a bard on this server rocks now.

The way twisting works is great. It's better than it was for a long time on live, Haynar actually managed to fix the "song fades as it lands" bug which took forever and a day on live. The dude is just awesome!

Instruments affect the power of songs, and even if you switch out the instrument the song retains its modifier. So instrument twisting is a great and viable tool now.

The things that are not working are mostly server-wide, and not bard specific. Mob runspeed and large hit boxes does hinder AE kiting and fear kiting. Mobs not being social also screws with the swarm version of charm kiting (regular charm or reverse charm kiting still works).

Manasong is on its way to being returned to its classic form, and then there will only be one thing left to fix (that I can think of);

Bard Aggro. On live, I've always struggled as a bard for aggro, I always wanted to be a tank but as soon as someone else in the group sneezed I would lose aggro. After many acquisitions (Blade of Carnage, Hooked Shan'kor or whatever the veksar weapon was called, and later the DoN camp weapons with enraging blow augs), I was finally able to hold a little bit of aggro. This is because in the bard code, there is a massive modifier reducing any kind of hate a bard can produce. The only hate a bard was allowed to create was with damage, and pure hate procs. All other indirect hate (debuffs, slows, snare, haste, heals, stuns) did absolutely nothing. There were and probably still are many threads on the live forums or the concert hall on how best to acquire aggro as a bard, and they all involve a lot of work.

On this server, the bard code does not seem to have this modifier. One mez, one slow or one proc from a weapon and I steal aggro. It's not just from warriors, but from everyone. If I instrument twist 2 AE dots and slow/snare and heal song, no one can take aggro from me for more than a couple seconds (they steal it, and then the server ticks and my dots take effect and I get it back).

I am not complaining. I love holding aggro, but in all honesty, it's not classic. And that should supersede any other arguments about what to do. It is also a double-edge sword, when kunark comes out with the AE resist songs, bards are going to die very fast unless this modifier comes in.

I probably got a bit carried away with this thread but I was inspired.

cheers!

Astucexx Subterfuge

Elendae · #4 05-09-2010, 12:23 PM

Good posts. I don't think I can add much else other than another voice saying how well they're done.

**Haynar** · #5 05-09-2010, 12:25 PM

I really am starting to want to try playing a bard.

Maybe if I hurry up and get caught up on some bug and features fixes, I will have time.

One more week left of school this semester, then I might get extra time.

This going back to school, while working full time, with a new baby in the house, in your 40's, really begins to wear you out.

Haynar

Lazortag · #6 05-09-2010, 12:47 PM

When I used to play I just played an SK but always thought bards seemed cool. For the first few levels of trying a Bard I almost thought of switching as I just didn't like it. Then it got ridiculously fun once I learned all the things you can do (such as kiting with chords/selo's/regen etc.)

The unpredictable running speed of some mobs makes kiting really lame sometimes, as you accumulate a third or fourth enemy to chase you and then find that he's hitting/stunning you even though you're using selo's accelerando, which has made me have to zone sometimes because I figured I had no chance against it. It doesn't happen that often, but it's led to my death at least once or twice.

Basically, bards are fun even if you've never played one before, but as was mentioned above, there are a few things that still ought to be sorted out before they're perfect.

Cscott · #7 05-09-2010, 02:07 PM

my bard is still low level but it has gotten much much better to play in recent months. great job on the fixes

taamas · #8 05-09-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Manasong is on its way to being returned to its classic form, and then there will only be one thing left to fix (that I can think of);

Bard Aggro. On live, I've always struggled as a bard for aggro, I always wanted to be a tank but as soon as someone else in the group sneezed I would lose aggro. After many acquisitions (Blade of Carnage, Hooked Shan'kor or whatever the veksar weapon was called, and later the DoN camp weapons with enraging blow augs), I was finally able to hold a little bit of aggro. This is because in the bard code, there is a massive modifier reducing any kind of hate a bard can produce. The only hate a bard was allowed to create was with damage, and pure hate procs. All other indirect hate (debuffs, slows, snare, haste, heals, stuns) did absolutely nothing. There were and probably still are many threads on the live forums or the concert hall on how best to acquire aggro as a bard, and they all involve a lot of work.

On this server, the bard code does not seem to have this modifier. One mez, one slow or one proc from a weapon and I steal aggro. It's not just from warriors, but from everyone. If I instrument twist 2 AE dots and slow/snare and heal song, no one can take aggro from me for more than a couple seconds (they steal it, and then the server ticks and my dots take effect and I get it back).

I am not complaining. I love holding aggro, but in all honesty, it's not classic. And that should supersede any other arguments about what to do. It is also a double-edge sword, when kunark comes out with the AE resist songs, bards are going to die very fast unless this modifier comes in.

I can attest to this, although my example is from Luclin, so things might've been changed around beforehand. Here's the scenario:

Guild was raiding Akheva Ruins, killing The Itraer Vius (had to look up his name it's been awhile hehe). You know, the one where you have the casters and healers hide behind the wall right behind him. So basically the tank dies, subsequent tanks die, and pretty much the rest of the melee. I was meleeing the whole fight (Epic + Primal Velium I think), while twisting whatever it was that I was twisting. It basically took a melee extermination for me to finally get aggro, but once I did, the healers kept me up and we downed it. It's a rooted mob, so if all the melee dies, he starts summoning the casters one by one to their death, so thats why I had aggro over the casters. If it wasn't rooted, all the DPS would be dead, probably healers as well, before I would've finally gotten aggro so it would've been a wipe at that point.

I remember this distinctly because of how awesome it felt to tank a raid boss. First time I've ever done it, on a bard no less!

Now, compare that to what we play now, it's completely different. I play an SK, and we all know how ridiculous the snap aggro is on Disease Cloud. Enchanter mez aggro I understand, because it's always been like that. However, Bard mez aggro is about the same here, which I never remembered in my experience playing a Bard. Sometimes it takes my SK 2-3 Disease Clouds before I get aggro from a Bard mez. If my Bard way back when had this kind of aggro ability, I would've been in paradise (I was a closet tank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

So yea, just that I'd give ya my two cents.

Jify · #9 05-09-2010, 04:26 PM

I do seem to hold agro really well. I mean, Withering staff + Orb of tishan + Slow/snare and I'm the king of agro holding. Can keep 3 FGs on me, while clerics CH away at me and rogues/wizards/druids go DPS crazy.

Granted, I think that's how it should be, especially since I'm procing high agro spells every 5-10seconds (max dex).

I do agree though, songs seem to give more agro than they did on live. But if a bard is trying he should be able to keep agro (particularly with stun/debuff proc weapons).

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mitic · #10 05-09-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taamas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes it takes my SK 2-3 Disease Clouds before I get aggro from a Bard mez. If my Bard way back when had this kind of aggro ability, I would've been in paradise (I was a closet tank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ).

actually, noone can beat bards on aggro on this server. equip a staff of writhing, get your dex up high, cast slow, cast any debuff, ghetto stun with your mezz and you will be instantly the maintank [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]