sk starting points

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

Recorded highest hit with 210 STR: 250 Damage
Recorded highest hit with 231 STR: 258 Damage

Total number of 250+ Damage hits across the entire test: 11 hits
Total number of hits across the entire test: 496 hits
Percentage of hits that were max damage or above the 210 STR max damage: 2.2%

At level 60 with a ToV weapon and 34% haste, 21 STR appears to give about 3 DPS.

In the Magelo I provided earlier https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK - I am using Argent Protector and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps as my Weapon + Haste item. This is to show what a lower cost setup would look like for OP.

The ratio of Argent Protector with 22% Haste (SCHW) is 1.04
The ratio of Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge with 34% Haste is 1.40
The difference in ratios is ~25%, so a level 60 with Argent Protector and 22% haste would probably be doing around 50.47 DPS on test 1 and 52.65 DPS on Test 2. The DPS difference drops to ~2.2 DPS.

You would do an additional 8000 damage per hour at level 60 with 2.2 additional DPS, assuming you are auto attacking non-stop. Realistically this number is going to be lower at lower levels, due to lower skills. It is also going to be lower because you are not killing non stop. You will be taking breaks. It is also going to be lower because Corudoth is only level 5, so my DPS was higher on him. You would maybe get 2-3 more Kobolds per hour using Lune's mob. It also looks like my guess of roughly 2% hits will be max was correct.

This isn't going to be a significant boost to your leveling process. As I have stated before, min/maxing the leveling process is a waste, because the whole point of leveling is to get to 60. Once you are there, you no longer receive any benefits from min/maxing the leveling process. If a player is casual, it doesn't matter if they stop playing at level 42 or level 43. The speed isn't relevant to them. If a player wants to get to 60, they will want the best starting stat at level 60, which is INT because it is the hardest to cap.

If you are hyper concerned about getting a few extra kills per hour while leveling, you would go Troll SK. They have much higher STR, and access to Blood Ember Clickies, which will save you more time during the leveling process than Greenmist.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

Recorded highest hit with 210 STR: 250 Damage
Recorded highest hit with 231 STR: 258 Damage

Total number of 250+ Damage hits across the entire test: 11 hits
Total number of hits across the entire test: 496 hits
Percentage of hits that were max damage or above the 210 STR max damage: 2.2%

At level 60 with a ToV weapon, 21 STR appears to give about 3 DPS.

The ratio of Argent Protector with 22% Haste (SCHW) is 1.04
The ratio of Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge with 34% Haste is 1.40
The difference in ratios is ~25%, so a level 60 with Argent Protector and 22% haste would probably be doing around 50.47 DPS on test 1 and 52.65 DPS on Test 2. The DPS difference drops to ~2.2 DPS.

You would do an additional 8000 damage per hour at level 60, assuming you are auto attacking non-stop. Realistically this number is going to be lower at lower levels, due to lower skills. It is also going to be lower because you are not killing non stop. You will be taking breaks. I guess you would get maybe 2-4 more Kobolds per hour using Lune's mob. It also looks like my guess of roughly 2% hits will be max was correct.

This isn't going to be a significant boost to your leveling process. As I have stated before, min/maxing the leveling process is a waste, because the whole point of leveling is to get to 60. Once you are there, you no longer receive any benefits from min/maxing the leveling process. If a player is casual, it doesn't matter if they stop playing at level 42 or level 43. The speed isn't relevant to them. If a player wants to get to 60, they will want the best starting stat at level 60, which is INT because it is the hardest to cap.

If you are hyper concerned about getting a few extra kills per hour while leveling, you would go Troll SK. They have much higher STR, and access to Blood Ember Clickies, which will save you more time during the leveling process than Greenmist.

The problem here is you are using a subjective opinion to support facts about the leveling process. Just because you think the leveling process is a waste to min/max, I don't think min/maxing the leveling process is a waste. An some people just like to get to 60, then move onto another project. And as Lune mentioned, there is data to support the majority of people end up quitting hybrids in their 40s/50s. There's nothing bad about doing this. Some would argue focusing on gearing at 60 is a waste, because we are stuck in Velious, and Velious was beaten in Kunark gear. It's not like later expansions where you truly needed a certain expansion level of gear to move onto the next expansions.

While I generally agree with INT for an SK for multiple reasons, I also went Troll so I didn't have to worry about STR. Had I went DE/Erudite, STR would have been a lot more appealing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is you are using a subjective opinion to support facts about the leveling process. Just because you think the leveling process is a waste to min/max, I don't think min/maxing the leveling process is a waste. An some people just like to get to 60, then move onto another project. And as Lune mentioned, there is data to support the majority of people end up quitting hybrids in their 40s/50s. There's nothing bad about doing this. Some would argue focusing on gearing at 60 is a waste, because we are stuck in Velious, and Velious was beaten in Kunark gear. It's not like later expansions where you truly needed a certain expansion level of gear to move onto the next expansions.

While I generally agree with INT for an SK for multiple reasons, I also went Troll so I didn't have to worry about STR. Had I went DE/Erudite, STR would have been a lot more appealing.

I gave the facts about how much faster you would be leveling via 20 STR, which is maybe 2-3 mobs per hour. That is not going to be a highly noticeable increase in the leveling process.

It is not an opinion that the leveling process is designed to get you to max level. That is the entire point of the system.

Starting stats matter the most at level 60, because stats scale based on level. If you are the type of player who only gets to level 40, it doesn't matter where you put your starting stats.

However, Everquest is a long game. People do change their minds about a character years later. It is better to air on the side of caution and assume you will get to level 60. Worst case you don't, and it didn't matter anyway.

As I have stated before, STR is a good choice for characters that start off with no gear and no money. When Green 2.0 comes out, I would generally advise people put their points into STR, since their first character is probably going to be the plat/item farmer anyway. But OP is rolling a character on a server that is at the last P99 patch, and has multiple 60s, which means they can twink this SK. There is no good reason to put your points into STR.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.

It is not an opinion that the leveling process is designed to get you to max level. That is the entire point of the system.

The most opiniony opinion that ever was opinioned.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most opiniony opinion that ever was opinioned.

It isn't. Every system in Everquest (and any other video game) is designed with a purpose. They aren't spontaneously generated and inserted at random.

It is factually true that the leveling system is designed to get you to max level. That doesn't mean everybody will get there, but that is it's purpose.

The only opinion here is the idea that a system designed to increase your level is not designed to increase your level.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't. Every system in Everquest (and any other video game) is designed with a purpose. They aren't spontaneously generated and inserted at random.

It is factually true that the leveling system is designed to get you to max level. That doesn't mean everybody will get there, but that is it's purpose.

Right, but we're on a locked server. That wasn't part of the original design. By going crazy at 60 gearing out, you're just padding your magelo. You're not trying to break into harder content. This could be considered even more dumb then min/maxing the leveling process.

You can kill anything with Kunark gear and the right composition.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, but we're on a locked server. That wasn't part of the original design. By going crazy at 60 gearing out, you're just padding your magelo. You're not trying to break into harder content. This could be considered even more dumb then min/maxing the leveling process.

You can kill anything with Kunark gear and the right composition.

Normally I'm with ya Crede but low man stuff is a thing. Full BiS is a world of difference from Kunark.

However, going INT on the sole premise of "its the hardest stat to cap" is only relevant for the top 5% of players that will actually take a SK to near/full BiS.

The OP clearly isn't going to do that. He's making an Iksar to do Greenmist. STR is his correct choice.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, but we're on a locked server. That wasn't part of the original design. By going crazy at 60 gearing out, you're just padding your magelo. You're not trying to break into harder content. This could be considered even more dumb then min/maxing the leveling process.

You can kill anything with Kunark gear and the right composition.

The fact that this is a locked server is irrelevant to the system design. On P99, people still progress linearly from levels 1-60. It doesn't matter if the max level is 60 or 120, because you are still linearly progressing in levels. The core purpose of the leveling system is still intact, and unchanged.

The only way you could begin to suggest that the leveling system is not a linear progression system is to prove P99 does things like randomly set a player's level. For example, if you logged in and your level 30 character became a level 54 character. Please do not bring up someone who has de-leveled by dying while AFK. They are losing XP in a linear fashion, not immediately jumping from level 60 to level 30.

People do enjoy getting end game gear, otherwise they wouldn't do it. I am not sure why you are trying to argue that gaining better loot in a game designed around gaining better loot is pointless. If you truly believed that, you would stop playing the game.

The reality is the +20 STR is not going to help OP enough during the leveling process to justify the detriment you get at level 60. I showed the data for this here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=105 . The detriment of putting your points into STR comes from the simple fact that STR is very easy to cap in the higher levels, so the +20 STR will end up being wasted.

If they put their points into INT and stop at level 43, their experience will be no different than if they put their points into STR and stop at level 43. You simply aren't getting enough of a boost for it to matter on a twinked character. It's better to put your points into INT assuming you will get to 60. Then you don't have to worry about it later when you decide to start playing your level 43 SK you stopped playing a year ago.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

I genuinely appreciate your effort. Seriously. No sarcasm.

But it is worth pointing out that you are a level 60 sk fighting a level 5 mob. I don’t think a leveling sk will be hunting mobs 55 levels beneath them. Your attack vs it’s defense and the level difference makes the parse a lot less relevant to the discussion at hand.

You’re a SK. You can FD. Why not go find a good, solidly blue xp mob and repeat.

Clock the time it takes you to drop it to 20%. FD and let it reset and regen up to 100. Rinse and repeat a few times at each str level. The mob being closer to your level will indeed have an greater impact on relative dps (str value vs str value) than parsing a on a level 5 mob.

If you want to make it even more relevant, take off some gear and test like 140 vs 160 strength.

Again DSM - I am very appreciative of you doing some leg work. This is a vast improvement in your behavior. It is unlike what you did (or didn’t do) in the shaman vs mage in a high dps group thread … where you never actually did/tried it … or did do it but didn’t like the results and therefore never posted your results.

Kudos where kudos are due. Please carry on!