Learn Me Good

[Dirtnap]

When im camping any camp, i don't mind sharing if i am ASKED. Run in and attack my camp and i'm going to be pissed. Walk up to me and say "Hey, mind if i snag some of these?" and 80% of the time i'll gladly say sure.

If i tend to be soloing somewhere, and another soloer shows up, i usually ask if they want to duo, so we aren't fighting each other for mobs. No reason to be an ass and hog everything just because i can.

[quido]

Originally Posted by Mardur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

b. Those rules still "apply" but like I said in my post, I've never seen them enforced 100% as they're written.

I am almost certain that at some point a number of months ago, either Uthgaard or Rogean said something to the effect of "all previous rules regarding camps are abolished, you claim something by engaging it, period." I don't remember exactly when or what the post was. I think it might have even been a reply to another post. I've been trying to find this but I can't. I remember reading this and thinking "thank god" and taking exactly that from it. Maybe it was a dream? Does anyone else remember this?

Find me this post please. I suck at querying the interwebz I guess.

I think people are just clinging to whatever shred of (outdated) evidence that will support their cause.

[Rogean]

GM's would take more of a non-douchebaggery approach. For example, if your in LGuk and your camping "Lord"... obviously you aren't just sitting in the lord room killing those 3 mobs.. you would be killing the lord room plus the hallway all the way to the split between AM and Hand, and pretty commonly even including AM and Hand. Now if there is a group that wants to take AM and/or Hand, those can be considered a separate camp and taken by another group, as any dispute on live would have similarily resulted in a 'play nice and share' decision. However, which of these groups lay claim to the mobs in the hallway would be a gray area, and would possibly be FTE by any group camping those 3 spots.

Now if you're camping lord and someone moves into the hallway and sets camp up THERE and starts killing hallway mobs, well that's a douchebag move, which would be handled appropriately.

From a GM's perspective, theres no reason why two groups couldn't be at Lord and AM each.. and share the hallway by whoever pulls the mob first. The Lord group would argue that the hallway should be theirs because AM has the option of pulling from further down towards the safe hall. However, each group's spot connects to that hallway and could have a right to pull those mobs.

This is just one example, and short of defining clear camp spots and what mobs are included in those spots for every single place in the game, you are inevitably going to run into many of these 'gray' areas where two groups feel entitled to pull mobs from the same spot. This is why it is GM Discretion. There's no easy rule that could apply in every situation.

[Rogean]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am almost certain that at some point a number of months ago, either Uthgaard or Rogean said something to the effect of "all previous rules regarding camps are abolished, you claim something by engaging it, period." I don't remember exactly when or what the post was. I think it might have even been a reply to another post. I've been trying to find this but I can't. I remember reading this and thinking "thank god" and taking exactly that from it. Maybe it was a dream? Does anyone else remember this?

Find me this post please. I suck at querying the interwebz I guess.

I think people are just clinging to whatever shred of (outdated) evidence that will support their cause.

Those were the raid rules. Raid mobs were first to engage.

[quido]

So at what point can a person steal a claimed mob? How slow does a KC Captain group have to be before you can take just one of a number of Drolvargs that are up? I understand and appreciate the non-douchebaggery concept, but yeah, I guess I'm a noob and don't know. Are we really expected to condone slow, ineffective clearing simply in the name of politeness? That's unfair to everyone else in the sense that we are forced to have fewer pops in X amount of time at these spots.

[Susanbanthony]

What if you're in LGUK safe hall soloing, and you have cleared up to that hallway. Somebody is camping lord (and therefore claiming that hallway) but these are the only mobs left for the soloer? Would that fall under this:

From a GM's perspective, theres no reason why two groups couldn't be at Lord and AM each.. and share the hallway by whoever pulls the mob first.

So if I'm soling and pull a hallway mob first it is mine?

[Bruman]

Heaven forbid people just try to share, and quit being man-children about it. Mobs can be scarce. If your group isn't fast enough, another group gets it. If a zone is overcrowded, every group ends up with downtime until some people decide to go somewhere less crowded - noone is forcing you to stay there. I know it gets a little more difficult with named spawns, but all the more reason to keep your group rockin'.

Let's just play nice, everyone respect everyone else, spread out where you can, and these issues don't matter. Nothing is more :eyeroll: than someone whining about getting a mob stolen.

[Uthgaard]

Camp rules mainly address named mobs, not xp trash.

If it's a named, and you want it, get on it, not around 3 corners, 2 closed doors and out of sight of it because you can pull it easier with the pathing bug in the middle.
If it's a named that can spawn anywhere, you can't really camp it, so it's whoever engages it first.
If it's an xp mob, just share the damn things. If you go pulling from the immediate vicinity of other groups, you're just escalating drama, because then they'll do the same thing to you, and neither group is going to average out ahead in the process. Apply some common sense, decency, and step back and look at the situation. Social reversibility is understood by 6 year olds, don't tell me anyone on this server can't manage it.

As for enforcing it, a lot of times it's he said-she said and everyone has an excuse. The average camp dispute takes an hour to resolve with logs, and even then it's still not a sure thing. And after that hour, everyone present will spam whoever made whatever decision with tells isolating single lines or words from the rules to try to twist the situation in their favor. You can't always break a camp dispute decision down into a single facet. It usually involves a comprehensive understanding of the situation, and in most cases, a lot of guessing over who's telling how much of the truth. And then following that, there's the infantile raging by at least one person who just can't let it go, and then if you suspend them to let them cool off, they'll just start spamming threads on the forums and wasting more time. By the time they've blown their whine wad, we're up to around 2.5 hours for a camp dispute. That shit is ridiculous.

If both parties are acting like babies and equally at fault, I'll eject everyone. It wouldn't matter if we had 50 guides, we still wouldn't have the time to deal with it every dispute. If you need to externalize all common sense, and expect us to come bring it to the table for you, don't expect us to do it with a smile, because there is always more to do, and players who need help through no fault of their own are higher on my priority list than people who 99% of the time are adults and can't act like it.

Fact is, one side will always come out pissed about the result of any camp dispute, and claim injustice, or favoritism, or that we suspended you for something you said in guildchat when it was really the juvenile hate tells you were sending, or whatever else justifies it to the rocks rattling around in their head. If you can't reach a resolution on your own, you really don't have any room to complain when someone else comes and reaches it for you.

[Mardur]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it's a named that can spawn anywhere, you can't really camp it, so it's whoever engages it first.

And here is the entire point of this thread.

GM-A says the rules are that if a named has multiple spawn points, it's first to engage.

Player-A pulls a named in KC (which has multiple spawn points), kills it, gets loot. Player-B who happened to be camping nearby petitions. GM-B shows up.

GM-B says that Player-A shouldn't have pulled the named and Player-A gives the drop to Player-B

GM-B effectively undermines the rules stated by GM-A because all CSR have their own set of rules that contradict other CSRs' rules.

[quido]

Thank you Uthgaard. You learned me real good!