If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who says you deserve more options?

Did Sony say, okay you've chosen to be a Darkelf, no one else in the game can be a Paladin but since you've made such a convincing argument that You and you alone should be above the rules, that we'll allow you, just you to be a Dark Elf Paladin.

I mean seriously, what is with this generation, and all of the everybody owes me something mentality?

Go make another Mr. Potato Head chart and rely on your scientific THEORIES.

There are no Scientific or any other facts that disprove God. That's why this debate is still going bro. If you had a fact, even a single fact that proved that God didn't exist, you'd forever change the world, because if there was truly a fact, that disproved God, everything would change.

You can't disprove God, just like to you, I can't prove God. God isn't into challenges, and isn't into tests. My entire life isn't a test, if you view it that way, it's no wonder you're so dead set against God. God isn't some big kid in the cosmos waiting to smite you for doing something wrong, if He was, why would he have sent his son to die as a sacrifice for you?

But it's Faith, you have Faith that there is no God, based on...theories. What you call facts.

I have Faith that there is a God, based on my own personal experiences. I can share with you my experiences, but it doesn't matter because you will just say it's unsubstantiated, or sensationalism or whatever else you want to write it off as so you can feel better about your Faith.

I don't have to attack you, in fact I feel bad for you.

I just wanna know, if there is a scientific fact that can explain everything, which is what you're saying by saying that Science proves there is no God (when it doesn't, in fact it seems to only further prove the existence of God) then what about those things that Science can't explain? What about those "UFOs" and what about people who have seen things that were very real(without the use of hallucinogens), but there is no evidence of them.

Don't feel bad for me. I live a great life unburdened by the guilt brought about by adhering to Iron Age literature. The debate isn't still going on. We have too much knowledge at our hands to believe that sort of primitive shit.

Hitchens once made the argument that homo-sapiens were around for 80,000 years warring, raping each other, driving other tribes to extinction etc and God just all the sudden starts caring about what we do around 500 BCE when the old testiment originated. He's right, it makes absolutely no sense now that we know how and when mankind came to be.

or how about this,

Most of mankind that ever existed didn't believe in Jesus Christ or your ignorant version of god. Therefore according to your holy book most of mankind is in hell. This means your god is either not omnipotent because he failed at his creation, or hes simply fucking evil.

[Asher]

The only thing we can all say for sure is that we aren't certain.

We can have theories and having a theory isn't being stupid. In my opinion either is possible. I am certain in a few hundred years we will be able to create advanced life ourselves. I believe we have already created very very simple forms of life haven't we? Who is to say that a more ancient being hasn't already done this?

I am an agnostic and will remain that way.

I considered myself a christian until I studied history and found out how religion was used in the early days to control people. I do not put any faith in anything these people have said or done.

I am ok with saying that I do not know and anyone who says they do know is lying.

Asher

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing we can all say for sure is that we aren't certain.

We can have theories and having a theory isn't being stupid. In my opinion either is possible. I am certain in a few hundred years we will be able to create advanced life ourselves. I believe we have already created very very simple forms of life haven't we? Who is to say that a more ancient being hasn't already done this?

I am an agnostic and will remain that way.

I considered myself a christian until I studied history and found out how religion was used in the early days to control people. I do not put any faith in anything these people have said or done.

I am ok with saying that I do not know and anyone who says they do know is lying.

Asher

Hate to break it to you but there's never been a time when religion wasn't used to control people.

And just because you don't have an opinion either way doesn't make those of us more sure in our beliefs liars.

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Now if you're saying #1 and #7 cannot possibly know for sure, then I agree with you.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Beauregard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't feel bad for me. I live a great life unburdened by the guilt brought about by adhering to Iron Age literature. The debate isn't still going on. We have too much knowledge at our hands to believe that sort of primitive shit.

Hitchens once made the argument that homo-sapiens were around for 80,000 years warring, raping each other, driving other tribes to extinction etc and God just all the sudden starts caring about what we do around 500 BCE when the old testiment originated. He's right, it makes absolutely no sense now that we know how and when mankind came to be.

or how about this,

Most of mankind that ever existed didn't believe in Jesus Christ or your ignorant version of god. Therefore according to your holy book most of mankind is in hell. This means your god is either not omnipotent because he failed at his creation, or hes simply fucking evil.

You've obviously never read it, so are therefore ignorant, so seriously stop spewing your propaganda all over the forums seriously dude. You've never been more wrong about anything.

Because if you knew anything about it, you'd know that Jesus wasn't around when Elijah was called up in a chariot of fire to Heaven, one of the few who have lived to not encounter death. So I guess he's in Hell according to you, since ya know, Jesus hadn't come yet?

What you fail to realize is despite the fact that Jesus had not come as a man, He was there from the very beginning. The sacrifices that were made before Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice were that of animals, and that's something that goes back far more than 6,000 years, in fact the Bible doesn't say anything about this 6,000 year number people keep spouting off.

I feel really bad for you.

Go read the book, before you try to discount it. That'd be like me not reading a theory and trying to disprove it. You don't even know what it says, or what it talks about. Just because you know some "Christians" doesn't mean anything.

You shouldn't be so mad.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing we can all say for sure is that we aren't certain.

We can have theories and having a theory isn't being stupid. In my opinion either is possible. I am certain in a few hundred years we will be able to create advanced life ourselves. I believe we have already created very very simple forms of life haven't we? Who is to say that a more ancient being hasn't already done this?

I am an agnostic and will remain that way.

I considered myself a christian until I studied history and found out how religion was used in the early days to control people. I do not put any faith in anything these people have said or done.

I am ok with saying that I do not know and anyone who says they do know is lying.

Asher

Being a Christian has nothing to do with religion. That's what I think people have the hardest time separating.

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've obviously never read it, so are therefore ignorant, so seriously stop spewing your propaganda all over the forums seriously dude. You've never been more wrong about anything.

Because if you knew anything about it, you'd know that Jesus wasn't around when Elijah was called up in a chariot of fire to Heaven, one of the few who have lived to not encounter death. So I guess he's in Hell according to you, since ya know, Jesus hadn't come yet?

What you fail to realize is despite the fact that Jesus had not come as a man, He was there from the very beginning. The sacrifices that were made before Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice were that of animals, and that's something that goes back far more than 6,000 years, in fact the Bible doesn't say anything about this 6,000 year number people keep spouting off.

I feel really bad for you.

Go read the book, before you try to discount it. That'd be like me not reading a theory and trying to disprove it. You don't even know what it says, or what it talks about. Just because you know some "Christians" doesn't mean anything.

You shouldn't be so mad.

Actually I'm from a deeply religious family, I've been to church hundreds if not thousands of times, I've read the bible and thought my way out of it. So go fuck yourself with your false accusations.

I do encourage everyone to read the bible, nothing will turn you into an atheist faster.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being a Christian has nothing to do with religion. That's what I think people have the hardest time separating.

That was just a little tid bit of information about myself so people would have an idea of where I was coming from. I was not intending that to be for all religions.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Beauregard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hate to break it to you but there's never been a time when religion wasn't used to control people.

And just because you don't have an opinion either way doesn't make those of us more sure in our beliefs liars.

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Now if you're saying #1 and #7 cannot possibly know for sure, then I agree with you.

You don't need to "break" anything to me I am already aware of this but I was saying that this is the point in my life when I realized this.

I am saying #1 and #7 cannot possibly know for sure, which is probably why you missed me saying "I am ok with saying that I do not know and anyone who says they do know is lying."

You can believe whatever you want but you do not know anything for sure because neither has been proven.

Asher

[Beauregard]

Ok here's something I know. If we were created like the bible tells us our creator is a fucking moron because he gave us an appendix we don't need.

[Dunes]

So you know where Im coming from, I probably fall around a #5 on that chart.

Premise: Religion is good.

Let me explain my take on it, despite the fact that I lean agnostic.

Religion came about for several reasons, to name a few at a high level:
-1- As a means of explaining the (then currently) unexplainable
-2- As a means of providing hope for the downtrodden
-3- As an additional societal norm for group cohesion
-4- As a means of providing justification for ones actions and as a means of control (dont take a offence at this one yet; see below)


So a bit more detail before I explain my premise.

-1- In an era with even basic mathematics did not exist, you can rest assured that there was a lot that was unexplainable. As societies grew, so did our understanding of the world, and more probable explanations came to be. This might in part explain the theological distillation from gods of everything (thunder, war, the hearth, the etc etc) down to "God", as subject matter for each of those other Gods was no longer unexplainable. Every new scientific/technical discovery of worldly significance deals another blow to religion.

-2- In an era when even basic medical care did not exist or was out of reach of most, religion provided some sense of hope. "Yes, my existence is miserable right now, but someday I will be rewarded for my faith with everything my that my I (my culture) hold dear." Also, "Yes, you may be able to knock down my shanty and steal my possessions, but someday, I will be rewarded for my faith and you will get what is coming to you." As medical care has improved and become more readily available, again, religion is replaced in the hearts of men (and women) by more worldly concerns.

-3- In an era when people were still being eaten by lions and threatened by invading forces, group cohesion and identity were critical. Group cohesion formed cultures, which in turn formed towns, cities, and nations of similarly minded people. Nations did tend to use religion (-4-) as a means of control, but this never would have worked if the people hadnt already adopted their form of religion as a societal norm. Ever has religion played a part in the rise and fall of empires. I will say this, though - religion is becoming less and less a motivator for war than economics. Economics, however, have always played a part in war.

-4- Persona A, "Why did you do that?" Person B, "Because its the right thing to do." This is a broad one, because it encompasses not only our moral "duties" but also our more proactive decision making processes (going to Church, volunteering at a food bank, etc). Unfortunately, this is also the one that gets us in trouble because it is so action-oriented. Person A, "Why are you going to blow yourself up in a highly populated location?" Person B, "because (someone told me that) its the right thing to do." Again, some conflict still ensues due to religion, but it is becoming increasingly less of a motivator despite media attention on the nut job suicide bombers.

So yes, there are pro's and cons to religion, and yes, a post in a forum cant even scratch the tip of the subject. Nevertheless, my premise that religion is good stands true in my mind. What other means is there of making sure that a person does the right thing unless its fear of divine retribution? Also, dont even try to make the argument of "well, what is 'the right thing'?" I think its safe to say that the right thing means not killing the kid that stole your lunch money just because you wont get caught (and other such examples). This simple rule of not killing unecessarily, not stealing, helping others when in need, and basically most of the 10 Commandments, is what keeps our ever growing, hedonistic, and entitled populations from destroying each other completely. Sure, thats a "sky is falling" scenario, but I personally would hate to see a world where religion does not, and never did exist. Sure