AC issues are starting to be really problematic.

[Treats]

NPC and Player chance to hit should be based solely off the targets Evasive AC, there shouldn't be any other modification applied to it.

NPC and player evasion AC are dictated from Defense Skill and Agility.

Aaryonar, Eashan, and Ikitiar probably need to be harder.

These fights in NTOV should be INCREDIBLY long if you do not have Primals from Sleepers AND other Velious gear upgardes. You shouldn't be able to kill them unless you have an obscene number of clerics, the fights end up taking too long.

[Splorf22]

The Velious mobs already have really high AC, to the point that Shiftin is complaining. Monks are doing 50-60 dps and Rogues 70. Plus we have so many shamans, each with two slots for Avatar, that most melee will probably have it even pre-sleepers anyway.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Velious mobs already have really high AC, to the point that Shiftin is complaining. Monks are doing 50-60 dps and Rogues 70. Plus we have so many shamans, each with two slots for Avatar, that most melee will probably have it even pre-sleepers anyway.

Two slots for Avatar?

Unless you have 20 shamans on your raid it is not even remotely possible to Avatar your whole melee force.

Avatar's duration and recast time does not allow for it.

Primal's should be a requirement to North Temple of Veeshan, if it is not something is wrong.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two slots for Avatar?

Primal Avatar + Avatar, obviously. Everyone and their brother plays shaman on this server anyway. So worst case all of your rogues have Avatar.

Originally Posted by Treats

Primal's should be a requirement to North Temple of Veeshan, if it is not something is wrong.

Just crazy imo. I mean how much do you expect Avatar to increase damage for PCs that are already strength capped? 20%? 30%? 50%?

edit: just to be clear, I don't think PCs are doing too little damage. Sure there is always some rogue clown in VP who does 125-150 dps, but those are the guys that a) had avatar b) hit disc and c) got lucky with backstab. The last two are obviously not sustainable for a 5 minute fight. I guess that without avatar/disc a rogue would average 85ish in VP, maybe even less.

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primal Avatar + Avatar, obviously. Everyone and their brother plays shaman on this server anyway. So worst case all of your rogues have Avatar.

I don't remember them stacking and can't seem to find anything supporting them stacking.

AFAIK: The purpose of primal avatar was to remove the emerald cost. If you got primal weapons, casted avatar/primal avatar don't serve much of a purpose on PCs until you start pushing beyond 150 worn attack - I don't believe that is possible until Luclin (casted avatar doesn't count toward the atk cap, procced avatar does).

[Shiftin]

It makes no sense that I would need a primal to even approach the damage i already do in VP against the amuse bouche mobs of NTOV. Primals should upgrade your damage, not bring you almost back to where you were in the previous expansion. If you look back the the LOS updates, pure math dicates they were far from full primals when they cleared everything by Vyemm and Vulak, even though they got a late start due to being adamantly dragon faction for 2 months.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It makes no sense that I would need a primal to even approach the damage i already do in VP against the amuse bouche mobs of NTOV. Primals should upgrade your damage, not bring you almost back to where you were in the previous expansion. If you look back the the LOS updates, pure math dicates they were far from full primals when they cleared everything by Vyemm and Vulak, even though they got a late start due to being adamantly dragon faction for 2 months.

Velious was the start of high mitigation AC bosses, Luclin was even worse.

Primals will give you an upgrade but you are not doing the damage against NPC's with the same mitigation as in Kunark.

LoS was in ST a couple months before they did NTOV.

Afterlife the same, its archived on their pages.

[pasi]

There's also a huge drop off as most raid NPCs go from 66-70 warriors from 60-65 casters.

With that said, monks with Wu/Wu + Avatar Buff aren't very far off from being at maximum-geared Velious damage (or at least until Garrath). It's not like there's tons of aura of battle stuff available, so actual gear doesn't matter outside of weapons. Yes, avatar for everyone is a modest gain, but it was never required to do some damage.

How big of a gain do you think 100 ATK is supposed to be if you think primals are a requirement?

[Shiftin]

a couple months is generous, i literally reread their updates today.

it's fun arguing "i remember it this way, i remember it that way" with you (no, it is not), but does anyone have actual parses we can run comps against? I am happy to do the work on that, but I need a baseline other than "yeah, i should do more than 70 DPS"

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How big of a gain do you think 100 ATK is supposed to be if you think primals are a requirement?

pure +ATK makes a pretty big difference in my parses currently. That's why i always go VoG.

[pasi]

Big difference, yes.

We're talking about 'useless' versus 'useful' here, I'm asking what the perceived figure is on 600ish AC mobs.