Game Mechanics: Necro heal recourse incorrectly dispellable

[pasi]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. If a necro lost bond of death or vexing when the mob got dispelled, there would have been a lot more vocal necros...

Additionally, the heal being tied to the dot would cease working in the event of mob death if that were the case. This was never the case.

Anyhow, not gonna repeat myself on this topic. Been discussed too much as is.

[Scrubosaur]

The reason there aren't many posts regarding the dispelling of the recourse is that many players back then didn't understand mechanics, didn't think necros as healers, and used HoT dots so didn't think there was a need to dispel the effect. The reason nerfs and buffs happen is that people think out the box so things get fixed. With the lack of hard info for a bunch of classic effects/spawns/loots its no surprise that we can't find a flat out statement that the effect can be removed with dispel but that doesn't mean it wasn't so.

[Velerin]

This back and forth basically comes down to Documented patch note vs. BotB necro pvp experience.

Problem with discussing this regarding pvp is: Even if you could use this heal in pvp you probably wouldn't because the technique requires good usage of buff order. Anyone that's ever played eq pvp knows the importance of buff order, junk buffs, etc. so you can dispel dots w/o hitting your good buffs as well as protecting your good buffs deep down.

If I saw someone using this I'd toss a splurt or whatever knowing it'd end up under all their buffs requiring them to dispel everything to get it off.

[Nirgon]

Would be way more talking about how this was dispellable if it was true.

Flip the dispellable flag as an easy fix and lock thread plox. Tryna wrap these up and move on to Velious.

[Nirgon]

The part I'm buying to be sure is the no recourse part and it would just hurt the necro in question.

Whatever the case is, 1 person would have at least tried to dispel this visible and pretty damaging effect (esp on people not decked out.. aka most people for the era).

It would be so much easier to find a comment about "just dispel the damaging portion" at least for a few patches if it was possible during classic-vanilla.

Not sure why Zyrino/the rest of the botb necros are being counted as entirely clueless. The whole fight hinged on this mechanic. There's just no way people wouldn't have tried to dispel the damage from the recouse for a paltry 30 mana.

Maybe I should have promoted item loot and a green con see invis guard after this was fixed instead of before? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Y u h8 the classic?

Edit: big ups to Faz, I see you

[koros]

There was a damn recourse. Do you think bond of death or vexing mordinia didn't have a recourse? It was just called "Bond of Death" when it was on the necro, but it healed them.

[Nirgon]

Forget where that theory of no recourse came from.

Bond obviously did and I'm certain of it from 1v1 pvp encounters.

I'm just not seeing all the posts in the classic wayback digs saying "oh yeah just dispel it" for the pact line.

People WOULD have tried to dispel this (like how we noticed you could here...). Just like I don't see people talking about how you could dispel res effects.

The classic healing guide mentions 0 about this. The wiki is just promoting this bug.

[baalzy]

Some devil advocating:

How widely known was it for people to use Soulfires to have 5 instant click CHs on a tank?
How widely known was it for people to use Midnight Mallet to lock aggro onto the tank?

Pretty sure these worked the same way they're used now, but noone realized it.

[Nirgon]

1. Soulfire I'll give you but guards here are way too easy because of resists. Still wouldn't slow the peeps here down. Further, people were super busy within a year of going clueless into these expacs and figuring everything out. That last point is a minor detractor because if soul fire being used on the tank was known at the time.. they'd definitely make time out of their busy schedule to blow these like champs (same with Trak teeth).

2. Midnight mallet... the item recharge bug was not widely known and when it became more wide spread, it was quickly fixed. I'm in the camp it shouldn't exist here on grounds it wasn't widely used so its not part of the classic experience in my book. I cannot name ONE guild that used this recharge bug for raiding. That said, I'm not getting anywhere near a heated bug-section-beard-quest about it.


If this or res effects were dispellable, there'd be easily findable shit posted.

That said? Get 2 staves of undead legions, a necro and enchanter with mana robe and have fun DESTROYING HS with this. When you are done, you can just leave them up... hopefully you choose some NPCs in a more tucked away area to hold your staves until you are ready to tear it up again. The basically free necro healing without holgresh beads + a few hours of this and you will get my point. It's not for main tank healing.. but raid healing otherwise in AoE situations or recovery after rezzes... way too powerful. Healing a shaman with a necro for instance atm without needing beads/casting expensive vexing... way OP even if it doesn't insta-gib raid mobs or w/e.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Soulfire I'll give you but guards here are way too easy because of resists. Still wouldn't slow the peeps here down. Further, people were super busy within a year of going clueless into these expacs and figuring everything out. That last point is a minor detractor because if soul fire being used on the tank was known at the time.. they'd definitely make time out of their busy schedule to blow these like champs (same with Trak teeth).

2. Midnight mallet... the item recharge bug was not widely known and when it became more wide spread, it was quickly fixed. I'm in the camp it shouldn't exist here on grounds it wasn't widely used so its not part of the classic experience in my book. I cannot name ONE guild that used this recharge bug for raiding. That said, I'm not getting anywhere near a heated bug-section-beard-quest about it.


If this or res effects were dispellable, there'd be easily findable shit posted.

That said? Get 2 staves of undead legions, a necro and enchanter with mana robe and have fun DESTROYING HS with this. When you are done, you can just leave them up... hopefully you choose some NPCs in a more tucked away area to hold your staves until you are ready to tear it up again. The basically free necro healing without holgresh beads + a few hours of this and you will get my point. It's not for main tank healing.. but raid healing otherwise in AoE situations or recovery after rezzes... way too powerful. Healing a shaman with a necro for instance atm without needing beads/casting expensive vexing... way OP even if it doesn't insta-gib raid mobs or w/e.

It's really not OP at all... charm is OP, ch is OP, slow is OP. If it's not classic and you can prove it that's one thing, but FAR FAR from OP