EQNext Discussion

[melkortshea]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Back in the day, a CR could be a fun extra challenge just as easily as it could be a royal pain in the ass. Players viewed CRs as part of the game to overcome just as much as the encounter that got them killed.

Nowadays players view CRs as nothing but a pain that holds them back from doing the stuff that they think they really want to be doing. But that mindset is mostly due to the fact that a 2-hour CR nowadays really would be impossible. I mean, in classic EQ the only classes that were truly powerless on a CR were warriors and rogues (who didn't want to keep a couple spare weapons in the bank I guess). Casters were at 80% power naked, and even hybrids like paladins and rangers still had pretty potent spells to use even if they weren't doing any killing with their bare fists. But now, when gear is like 90% of your character's power, being naked on a CR is just out of the question... hence players hate the idea of naked, 2-hour CRs and hence CRs in modern MMOs consist of a 15-second run from a graveyard back to an instance where you instantly have your gear on again.


It's just like the mechanics of item decay and permadeath. 99% of players see those terms and freak the fuck out because they can't imagine anything outside of a WoW-like game that suddenly had their epics decaying and their characters permanently dying. But in a game where a 2-hour CR or item decay or even permadeath is contemplated from the start and built into the very framework of the game, those mechanics COULD work just fine. No one flipped their shit in Shadowbane when their armor needed to be replaced eventually because the game was built for that to happen; it didn't take days /played of raiding in order to get a weapon, and that weapon wasn't 100% crucial to your success in the game, so having to go find another weapon when your current one fell apart wasn't a huge deal... in fact it put you out there in the world trying to replace it, resulting in more pvp chances... it required you to protect your city so that your merchants could forge you up a new weapon... etc. And in Eve. Yeah it sucks to get your awesome ship asploded, but it also rocks to asplode your enemy's awesome ship and to have real choices to make between the pros and cons of flying expensive+effective vessels vs. cheap+weaker ones. And the brutal CRs of EQ1 made sense back then. You get the idea (I hope).

I remember one of more intense classic experiences came from a CR. I was playing my Wizard and had just leveled high enough to get the CZ port. I had never been to CZ before and as always when I got a new place to port I would teleport there to check it out.

I ported into CZ and hit some major agro and died. When I spawned at my bind point I also realized that I had de-leveled and couldn't return to get my corpse.

A higher level wizard who was a total stranger to me agreed to port me in to get my corpse. I remember the tense feeling when we ported in and this dude holding off the mobs while I grabbed my gear. He was barely hanging on while I looted and then we both got the hell out of there.

It is was a memorable moment and a prime example on how Corpse Runs can be seen as an accomplishment just as much as killing a named NPC.

[Harr1son]

Originally Posted by Smedy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

link more footage, i havent kept up with anything, where can i see the actual gameplay?

Smedy Today in approx 1 hour 20 minutes from the time of this post, ‪#‎EQNext‬ Worldwide Debut at 12:00PM PDT!

That is 9PM
Friday, August 2, 2013 (CEST)
Time in Sweden

Tune in to http://www.twitch.tv/EverQuestNext

[Rust1d?]

Sam, I do agree that a 2hr CR is way too much. I am thinking along the lines of a failed fear raid or a failed naggy raid. I think if you died in say EC and were bound in Qeynos, you could probably find a porter to get you there, for a fee.

Maybe they can have something like this:

- You die, can run and loot corpse for full exp recovery.
- You die, can rez at nearest town and lose % exp.

So it is up to you, but you DO have the option to just keep playing, but you will have to make up the exp loss. The issue is that now risk vs reward goes away. So you can just sacrifice exp to keep trying to kill xx mob with no repercussions.

I also agree that medding for 15 min is stupid. I am not 20 anymore, I do not live at my parents house, going to school and working part time. I have a family and a job. So there has to be some happy middle ground for thing like medding, traveling etc.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sam, I do agree that a 2hr CR is way too much. I am thinking along the lines of a failed fear raid or a failed naggy raid. I think if you died in say EC and were bound in Qeynos, you could probably find a porter to get you there, for a fee.

Maybe they can have something like this:

- You die, can run and loot corpse for full exp recovery.
- You die, can rez at nearest town and lose % exp.

So it is up to you, but you DO have the option to just keep playing, but you will have to make up the exp loss. The issue is that now risk vs reward goes away. So you can just sacrifice exp to keep trying to kill xx mob with no repercussions.

I also agree that medding for 15 min is stupid. I am not 20 anymore, I do not live at my parents house, going to school and working part time. I have a family and a job. So there has to be some happy middle ground for thing like medding, traveling etc.

I feel like you just described WoW. BTW, looking at the EQnext wallpaper seems like they totally ripped off WoW models.

[Ephi]

Originally Posted by Cyrano [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like you just described WoW. BTW, looking at the EQnext wallpaper seems like they totally ripped off WoW models.

Fully understanding that I am the minority opinion here, but I'm totally okay with ripped off WoW models.

Yes, they were cartoony and at times awkward, but I began to appreciate them over time. That said, I have absolutely zero confidence that Sony can make a graphics engine that performs as well on such a wide array of systems like Blizzard did (part of the reasoning behind the models in the first place).

Edit: I should probably also mention that at this point in my life I have no interest in creating a gaming system to handle the "modern" graphics engines, hence my being okay with a WoW graphics clone. I liked the WoW engine because it would run very well on a standard macbook pro (my usual machine). EQ1 also falls into that category, though for obvious other reasons.

[SamwiseRed]

ya cuz you can only make a human and orc so many ways

[fastboy21]

Yes, and here in lies the reason why all of us will never be "happy" with today's presentation. We all call ourselves old school and classic, but we all really want different things when get down to it.

CRs, but not too long...no easy travel, but reasonable travel times...risk v. Reward balance, but not time sinks...none of us ar really asking for the same thing.

I can say this...right now I am on a line waiting to get into the unveil in Vegas..,and it is exciting. The waiting is almost over, and the suspense building for YEARS is about to flood loose. It is a good day to love gaming. No matter how much you like or don't like what we see today.

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No idea what you're talking about.

What you mean, is you can't expect an EQ1 to be WoW. EQ1 with updated combat, music and graphics would easily pull down 500k+ like Eve.

Too many options on mmos for people to keep aiming for 5 million+ players. Industry needs to specialize in niche games like EQ1 or just keep expectin your players to ditch you after 1-3 months.

So if you "update" the combat (which is what? more spammy abilities? EQ2 wack-a-mole combos?) update the graphics (eq2 plastics or fluid cartoony models like WoW?) I play with music off in all MMOs and means dick all to the average gamer.

EQ1 gameplay is broken as fuck :\

People have changed since 1999 bro. That is why on the live progression servers you had 30+ shadowknights insta-gibbing raid content. The min-maxing in MMOs in 2013 is off the charts, you wont be able to have world-spawns on 3-7 day timers for the entire server, the people will ruin the entire idea of making another EQ1. That is why everything is instanced now. Look at this server for fucks sake, barely anyone can get a raid mob and were only dealing with maybe a couple hundred people contending for these raids.

All EQ1 is, is a MMO that is focused on meaningful item progression. I haven't had a death penalty in EQ since 1999! 96% rezzes are everywhere and anyone can get their corpse summoned for a small fee.

I think you're looking at things with rose-tinted glasses if you think everquest is the future of MMOs.

I would hate to be the lead dev on an EQ1 in 2014 when my subscription numbers are plummeting every day from people complaining and rage quitting over shit. When bossman comes down and asks what is going on and what can be done and your response is "the game is meant to be hard!" Good luck finding another job.

If you want to sit here and arm-chair dev like you know what you're talking about, be my guest but this will be the last time I comment on this subject.

[Breeziyo]

Originally Posted by Rhuma7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I play with music off in all MMOs and means dick all to the average gamer.

lold

[Rust1d?]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, and here in lies the reason why all of us will never be "happy" with today's presentation. We all call ourselves old school and classic, but we all really want different things when get down to it.

CRs, but not too long...no easy travel, but reasonable travel times...risk v. Reward balance, but not time sinks...none of us ar really asking for the same thing.

I can say this...right now I am on a line waiting to get into the unveil in Vegas..,and it is exciting. The waiting is almost over, and the suspense building for YEARS is about to flood loose. It is a good day to love gaming. No matter how much you like or don't like what we see today.

Then you need classes that have a purpose. EQ1 was tough in the beginning when nobody had rez, sow, ports, summon corpse etc. Once people hit 50, if I was a in a guild, say I died in LGuk. For some reason I am bound in Erudin.

/gu can someone port me from Erudin to Lguk?
xxx tells you: Sure
/gu thanks!

So technically, you can make death the same as classic EQ, so long as the classes are there and have meaning.

I do not mind camping etc. 8 hour spawn times though are stupid for mobs. 15-20 min spawn times for mobs makes more sense. Gives you time to talk to friends, share stories etc. That was half the fun of playing.