Questions for Chest/BDA and others

[Raavak]

Yeah and the little dogs. I root and camp, but I don't know what a warrior should do, besides die. Not enough people just taking that death.

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd agree that intent isn't always malicious, and maybe stupidity shouldn't be punished as harshly as a crime of malice, but how do you separate the two? Before judgement day trains were just the cost of doing business in the raid scene, going forward I'd like that to change. Super harsh penalties for a train because someone is stupid doesn't seem right, and neither do soft penalties for trains with malicious intent. Then it turns into proving intent, or who's fault it was anyways, fraps are required, etc etc.

trains are the worst

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah and the little dogs. I root and camp, but I don't know what a warrior should do, besides die. Not enough people just taking that death.

You should get invis vs undead somehow and take the basement route under rcy. One small dog right at the front is usually dead but can be pacified or rooted if it's up. From there you have absolutely no living mobs until you pop out next to VS pit. So you basically have one mob that you have to deal with between basement and VS pit. Can usually invis past it. Everyone should just take this path, it's actually the best.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

This is far more reasonable. Ridiculously harsh punishments will just have guilds trying to get another guild suspended for a month. And this WILL happen. Because trains will happen, no matter how careful people are.

[Funkutron5000]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

Just be a non-worthless class and cast it on yourself. No need for a potion, just a little bit of mana.

[quido]

says the paladin!

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If TMO has a few idiots that can't figure out how to get to a spot without training, then TMO either needs to teach them how or boot them out.

Not to throw my guildies under the bus, but I am often amazed by the number of people who don't know how to get around some of these dungeons unassisted after all these years. I'd be afraid to know how many don't know the way from Seb zone in to Trak lair.

And I know its not just TMO because I've been in exp groups sitting in a camp and tell a lfg to come join you and they are like "I don't know my way to hand". Doh.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

This is impossible to enforce. It would require an instant GM ruling.

And anyway, it's really no impediment at all. If your guild is going to miss out on FTE anyway unless you recklessly blow past mobs and burst into the engage site, you might as well train your way there and deal with the consequences if you get caught. Very few trains are actually caught on fraps. If the only penalty is "oh well, you don't get this mob", then nobody is going to stop training.

The penalty has to be extremely harsh. The idea that accidental trains are somehow less bad than intentional trains is mistaken. The guild being trained doesn't care. Intentional or not, your train is causing harm to other guilds and you should be held liable for that harm. If you're not prepared to raid without unintentionally ruining the encounter for 30+ other people, then you shouldn't be raiding.

The problem right now is that the 30+ people you're ruining it for are powerless. If an idiot in TMO unintentionally trains BDA, BDA doesn't really have any recourse. The rules need to shift the burden. When a dumb guild member is ruining it for his own guild by putting them on raid suspension, then you'll start to see the trains stop.

[Purdee]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

nah sorry, don't trust you. also, I don't speak for the guild, just myself, so stop trying to lump my question in with the guild.

that's not how we did it back in 99-2000. Racing was actually just that, racing, not seeing how fast we could swap between alts. And I don't just mean from the zone in either.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 CT

I really want to see BDA or other T2 guilds charge into fear on a full repop then charge CT and win.

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS

Want to see BDA take this fool down after next patch. I'm basically 100% sure, but its just something I want to see... not for the same reason as above.

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trak

2 isn't enough? He's kind of a top tier Kunark mob ya know :P.

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Inny

Here's a great mob for the "mains without epics" debate. But yeah give this guy and Faydedar a fucking rest, seriously.

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the fat kid at a friends birthday party who ate all the cake and then whines when he doesn't get more ice cream then everyone else.

Except you can't eat all the cake... the mobs respawn every month. There will be more "cake" coming every month and you get a real shot at them. I agree I would never except BDA/Taken to TRUELY contest TMO/FE in the mobs per month club... so I think its healthy for the server to make these changes especially with repop days being factored into the equation.

But I also find it BORING and WASTEFUL for some rule to be made that no one at all can touch something unless they are a specific guild, and it can be killed whenever they finally get people on to kill it / without tracking it.... it will turn into the more dedicated players tracking for you and trying to get you to kill it as soon as possible so it doesn't start shaving hours going into the # of mobs that can effectively spawn in a year. Worse, this is dangerously close to "instancing" content except your instanced dragon is free to roam the dreadlands and grief newbies while you figure out what night of the week you guys actually feel like killing it:

"Friday night work for you?"
"Naw I got karate class... how about Saturday?"
"Naw you know I can't raid Saturdays..."
"Well how about Monday?"
"Well this Monday I have to play cards with my grandparents"

I'm generalizing the above but this isn't the kind of shit you pulled in EQ and got raid loot. It shouldn't be here either. Lots of guilds will have trouble killing certain mobs (big time in Velious and I'm looking ahead) if certain members can't make it like their "casual" main tank that farmed enough fungis to buy a cobalt bp etc. Mobs getting left up until a certain guild can finally get enough certain people on is just absolutely stupid.

Truth of the matter I think that the previously agreed upon raid rules were a solution and a compromise. Btw a compromise means you will also probably really not like parts of it. A compromise doesn't mean you like everything about it so you will agree to it. A compromise means things are better than they were before for you even though you aren't getting exactly what you want. Look up the definition of compromise.

As far as "now there's gonna be more trains and petitions with having to clear down" etc? If you are a guild that habitually has trouble clearing down, wipes/trains/makes a mess? Maybe you shouldn't be part of the rotation on that mob? Maybe you can't handle your shit and shouldn't try to race as fast as the better guild? I already know what people on both sides will do if the other team is looking like they will get to the mob first. They will recklessly charge through and try to aoe things down or just mez them and try to FTE the boss (look how CT is done now... and actually with surprising success). I would hope when Trak does spawn the players in the zone are warned that raid guilds will be charging down there like wild Indians and they are intelligent enough to yield until the chaos clears.