Critical Fail Combines are Amazing

[WarpathEQ]

My anecdotal experience (no hard data validation has been done) is there seems to be a threshold with the skill level and the primary attribute that contributes to skill up and I've found that when the skill level exceeds the attribute that skill ups are way less common.

I.E. if you have a 150 baking skill and your primary attribute is intelligence you'll see your skill ups move considerably faster if your intelligence is over 150 versus under. Maybe the 2 aren't correlated and its just the attribute being higher contributing regardless of skill level.

The best example I have is jewelcrafting. I was working on skilling up a guild bot at the same time a full geared 255 int enchanter in the guild was also working on skilling up to max jewelcrafting. I spent way more money than him and was no where near max skill by the time he was done and maxed.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My anecdotal experience (no hard data validation has been done) is there seems to be a threshold with the skill level and the primary attribute that contributes to skill up and I've found that when the skill level exceeds the attribute that skill ups are way less common.

I.E. if you have a 150 baking skill and your primary attribute is intelligence you'll see your skill ups move considerably faster if your intelligence is over 150 versus under. Maybe the 2 aren't correlated and its just the attribute being higher contributing regardless of skill level.

The best example I have is jewelcrafting. I was working on skilling up a guild bot at the same time a full geared 255 int enchanter in the guild was also working on skilling up to max jewelcrafting. I spent way more money than him and was no where near max skill by the time he was done and maxed.

The higher your skill up stat is the more chance you have to skill up.

The higher your skill is the least chance you have to skill up.

The closer your are to trivial the more chances you have to skill up.

Success rate is based on skill, stat has no impact.

At 255 main stat, at 1 skill you have 80% chance to skill up on a 15trivial combine but at 249 skill you have 6,45% chance to skill up on a 262 trivial combine. It is like over 1000 combines to get from 148 to 250 tailoring.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The higher your skill up stat is the more chance you have to skill up.

The higher your skill is the least chance you have to skill up.

The closer your are to trivial the more chances you have to skill up.

Success rate is based on skill, stat has no impact.

At 255 main stat, at 1 skill you have 80% chance to skill up on a 15trivial combine but at 249 skill you have 6,45% chance to skill up on a 262 trivial combine. It is like over 1000 combines to get from 148 to 250 tailoring.

I always feel like the tradeskills were only really ever intended to reach a triv going up to 100 or maybe a few dozen above that.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I always feel like the tradeskills were only really ever intended to reach a triv going up to 100 or maybe a few dozen above that.

Yeah most tradeskills you're not really getting much over 150.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The higher your skill up stat is the more chance you have to skill up.

The higher your skill is the least chance you have to skill up.

The closer your are to trivial the more chances you have to skill up.

Success rate is based on skill, stat has no impact.

At 255 main stat, at 1 skill you have 80% chance to skill up on a 15trivial combine but at 249 skill you have 6,45% chance to skill up on a 262 trivial combine. It is like over 1000 combines to get from 148 to 250 tailoring.

I'm calling bluff on that. I know multiple people that leveled up to max jewelcrafting and all spent a roughly similar amount of plat to do it (within a 5kp variance). These folks are enchanter mains with HoT+ gear. I worked on leveling up our shitty guild guild bot enchanter's JC and have gone thousands beyond what anyone else spent and am still in the low 200s. Pretty confident that your character stats matter which is why there are plenty of resources that list the relevant stats for coorelating skills.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm calling bluff on that. I know multiple people that leveled up to max jewelcrafting and all spent a roughly similar amount of plat to do it (within a 5kp variance). These folks are enchanter mains with HoT+ gear. I worked on leveling up our shitty guild guild bot enchanter's JC and have gone thousands beyond what anyone else spent and am still in the low 200s. Pretty confident that your character stats matter which is why there are plenty of resources that list the relevant stats for coorelating skills.

I think you misread the first line because it supports your conclusion.

One thing that was clear for me early in my tradeskill journey is you might as well invest in gear to bring that main stat as close to 255 as you can or you're just making it harder on yourself from a cost perspective.

[loramin]

Throughout EQ history there's been a lot of confusion and misinformation about tradeskills (and random EQ "rolls" in general). That being said, investigative tradeskillers have found, for certain, that stats (only) helped your chance to get a skill-up ... as long as the recipe isn't trivial. Converseely, your skill was the only thing that impacted your chance of making something (stats didn't help).

That much was incontrovertible on live (go use https://search.eqarchives.org/?size=n_20_n if you don't believe me). I presume it remains true here, but I could be wrong.

But there's one thing that I think is wrong here, because it's based on the post-classic live tradeskills ... but I've been unable to prove it without the old EQ Traders forum (sadly, the Wayback machine didn't capture it, and when I contacted Niami Den Mother, the site's owner, she said she'd look to see if she had an archive ... and then never emailed me back ... so presumably not even she has one).

That one thing is, whether the combine succeeds or fails, the chance of skill-ing up should be the same. Knowing something like this was huge for live tradeskillers, as you often had stuff you could combine that was above your skill level. If skill-ups depended on success, you really wouldn't want to use those components ... but because it was such useful info, one player did a bunch of combines both ways, and conclusively found that success didn't matter for skillups.

Based on reports I've heard here, it seems skill-ups are more likely with successes, but that's not how classic EQ worked (though it's how it's worked on live since 2004 or so).

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Throughout EQ history there's been a lot of confusion and misinformation about tradeskills (and random EQ "rolls" in general). That being said, investigative tradeskillers have found, for certain, that stats (only) helped your chance to get a skill-up ... as long as the recipe isn't trivial. Converseely, your skill was the only thing that impacted your chance of making something (stats didn't help).

That much was incontrovertible on live (go use https://search.eqarchives.org/?size=n_20_n if you don't believe me). I presume it remains true here, but I could be wrong.

But there's one thing that I think is wrong here, because it's based on the post-classic live tradeskills ... but I've been unable to prove it without the old EQ Traders forum (sadly, the Wayback machine didn't capture it, and when I contacted Niami Den Mother, the site's owner, she said she'd look to see if she had an archive ... and then never emailed me back ... so presumably not even she has one).

That one thing is, whether the combine succeeds or fails, the chance of skill-ing up should be the same. Knowing something like this was huge for live tradeskillers, as you often had stuff you could combine that was above your skill level. If skill-ups depended on success, you really wouldn't want to use those components ... but because it was such useful info, one player did a bunch of combines both ways, and conclusively found that success didn't matter for skillups.

Based on reports I've heard here, it seems skill-ups are more likely with successes, but that's not how classic EQ worked (though it's how it's worked on live since 2004 or so).

I just wanna poke in with a question;

Does anyone remember a bunch of triv 15 stuff being essentially no-fail comines? Like making silk threads with tailoring?

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you misread the first line because it supports your conclusion.

One thing that was clear for me early in my tradeskill journey is you might as well invest in gear to bring that main stat as close to 255 as you can or you're just making it harder on yourself from a cost perspective.

Sure did, agreed!

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That one thing is, whether the combine succeeds or fails, the chance of skill-ing up should be the same. Knowing something like this was huge for live tradeskillers, as you often had stuff you could combine that was above your skill level. If skill-ups depended on success, you really wouldn't want to use those components ... but because it was such useful info, one player did a bunch of combines both ways, and conclusively found that success didn't matter for skillups.

Based on reports I've heard here, it seems skill-ups are more likely with successes, but that's not how classic EQ worked (though it's how it's worked on live since 2004 or so).

Honestly it would make sense because when you're done with wu armor (148?), the most accessible way to skill up is velious armor and the vast majority of that is trivial at 335, meaning until you reach 200ish you have a 5% success rate, meaning your skill up rate is basically the failure skill up rate. This would be harsher than it would need to be but this is also everquest.

I have enough mats banked to make a couple hundred tailoring combines and I plan on farming more so if you have something you want me to gather stats on, I can do it.