Timesinks != difficult

[Dirtnap]

I will just go ahead and repeat what many others have said. You can't compare a game to real life. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't have to play a sport to have experience with it. Do you think everyone who watches sports on TV has played the actual sport? No, they haven't. They have watched it enough to have experience with that sport however.

I took a carpentry class for 6 months, and you know what they had us do for the most part? Watch experienced carpenters work, so we could learn to work the right way. Most of my experience of carpentry comes from watching someone else work, and it has made me a better carpenter.

I don't think getting a job has anything to do with any of this. Can you elaborate why it's important to the subject?

To elaborate on my original point: I was never saying you can form an opinion of WoW in its entirety from a single video. I was talking about forming and opinion on WoWs raiding, or PVP, by watching videos of those events. Which is all the experience you need to make an informed decision on your opinion.

[Dirtnap]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Game Over yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh. So true.



Playing a sport, and watching a sport are far from the same thing. There is a reason ESPN typically employs players/coaches for analytical roles, and journalists/beat writers typically don't get the same level of respect.

If you ever played basketball, you'd understand more than just dunking and shooting. You'd understand defensive sets, rotations, reads, patterns, footwork, I can go on and on. Your casual fan who just watches generally won't know about any of that.



Carpentry involves copying/following directions/blueprints etc, and is a terrible example.



So you're saying, you'd trust a professional video game reviewer, who didn't actually play the game? The point of a video game is to play it. If you watch videos from EQ, do you even really have any idea whats truly going on if you've never played? Show an EQ raid video to someone who has never played EQ, and ask them what they think. I'm sure it'll be "Duhhh the graphics stink", because all the can see is graphics, they aren't experiencing gameplay.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/experience?s=t

I am just going to post this as my final response.

I am not going to argue with you what experience is.

[Dirtnap]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What experience is was never really up for debate in the actual definition sense. You failed as usual to address any points.

I'll ask again, So you're saying, you'd trust a professional video game reviewer, who didn't actually play the game?

What do you see in videos/screenshots of games? Graphics. That is all. (Ok ok SOME gameplay, but without playing its hard to grasp) If you reviewed EQ based on the eye test, every review would say it sucks. Is that fair?

These aren't movies we are talking about, they are video games that require input from a user/player. If you don't participate in the input, how do you know anything?

So what your saying is, we can't form an opinion on something unless we actually interact with it. That is just false. Yes, I would trust a review on a game, if someone hadn't actually played it. Observation is a valid way to experience something, and form an opinion on the subject.

Some things in games can't be experienced through video. But raid content, and instance content can be experienced through video. That was my entire point. Much of this discussion has been on easiness of content, and you can see how easy something is by observing it.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Dirtnap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what your saying is, we can't form an opinion on something unless we actually interact with it. That is just false. Yes, I would trust a review on a game, if someone hadn't actually played it. Observation is a valid way to experience something, and form an opinion on the subject.

Lol you would really listen to someones opinion on something they just observed!??! Fast food burgers look really good if you just observed one but have you ever tried one? Good luck with that mind set i'm sure it will really get you far in life.

[bluntfang]

Originally Posted by Dirtnap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what your saying is, we can't form an opinion on something unless we actually interact with it.

No, what we're saying is that the opinion of someone who has enganged in the actual gameplay of a video game is worth exponentially more than someone who has just observed it. It's worth so much more, in fact, the the lesser opinion is extremely close to invalid when trying to compare it to another video game's gameplay

Here is an example of your opinion: You have an apple and an orange. You really, really, really like apples but you have never tried an orange. You say that apples taste better than oranges, because you don't like the color of the orange.

Here is an example of a valid opinion: You like apples better than oranges because there's less chance to bite into a seed when eating an apple.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Calling "troll" is basically waving a white flag in defeat. I can requote all of your posts and prove this quote of yours right here untrue if you'd like. (wow thread)

I don't think I came across as "butt hurt" as you say. You came into a POSITIVE thread and starting spewing hate for a game, and making comparisons to EQ, for what reason? Obviously to start a debate of some sort, or maybe you're the one trolling? Hmm...you also never respond to the points I make, you only try to play sensitive guy and insult me.

Let's be honest here. I read the thread entirely. When I seen someone comment that WoW raiding was much more complex than EQ I chimed in. Because the person that said that obviously didn't play EQ long enough to see it evolve, much the same way WoW did. And when I provided timeline facts that the two are simply incomparable thats when you started taking jabs, calling my posts stupid and me idiotic. You are the one who started to get personal.

This was the first post I made on that entire thread. And you took it as a personal attack against WoW and that I was a hater.

"Disagree with this. When WoW released it was pretty cut and dry just like EQ was. It wasn't like WoW released with all kinds of awesome raid content. I remember getting to max level and not having much to do when it released.

As I stated before...a lot of this WoW talk is due to the progression of MMO based games, not so much WoW in itself. EQ started getting some pretty tricky and sick raids along the way also. Doesn't mean it was necessarily better at any certain point in time.

I remember playing Anarchy Online which I do believe released before WoW. Had a ton of cool features. Links, item mods, etc. It was basically a flop of a game. Lot of those features later found their way into EQ and WoW.

Just because you seen it first in WoW doesn't mean it was the first to pioneer something."

No where in there did I say anything bad about WoW. Get over yourself. I'm done feeding the troll. You had like 8 total posts before all this started so you are obviously newer to project 99 then me or just a troll stirring up controversy.

[bluntfang]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I seen someone comment that WoW raiding was much more complex than EQ I chimed in.

The whole point is that you don't know how complex WoW raiding is due to not experiencing it, thus your opinion is invalid.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by bluntfang [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole point is that you don't know how complex WoW raiding is due to not experiencing it, thus your opinion is invalid.

QFT

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go back and check the thread, you are exaggerating, which you do a lot. You chimed in starting the EQ vs WoW debate, and you have no experience with WoW raiding. You may have EQ experience, but how can you compare it to something you DON'T have experience with? That's my problem with your posts

And thank you! You just proved my ENTIRE POINT. The reason you and I even disagree on this is because of what tops said. Neither tops nor you have sufficient EQ raiding experience to back up your talk that WoW raiding is indeed tougher and more complex than EQ. All you guys have is experience much like me with WoW. Minimal AT BEST.

[Chokan]

I've played a shitload of MMO's and WoW is the only one I quit BEFORE max lvl because it was too EASY. I guess it doesn't help that I was coming from EQ1 though...