Questioning GM Decisions

booter · #1 09-07-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Yes, we know you have this fairness crusade to get TR raid suspended for two weeks, but that really isn't the topic of this thread at all. In fact, you're proving the OP's point by not going through the proper channels for it.

This thread is about HOW/WHERE you go about questioning GM decisions and how that affects the overall health of the server - it is not the place to actually DO that.

Start a new thread for this discussion if you honestly want it to go anywhere, instead of cluttering up this surprisingly constructive thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle

Personally, I won't participate in a server where cheaters are allowed to keep playing, nor will I participate in discussions where I am selectively censored in order to dupe prospective players into joining what they think is a server not suffering these ills.

The cheaters who will be joining us again soon won't be cheating anymore. They'll be caught and permanently removed if they do it again, since we know the staff can detect it. Does everyone agree that they should be able to play again? No. Are they going to be? Yes. Were there more variables to the staff's decision than most players probably realize? Most definitely.

Barkingturtle · #2 09-07-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The cheaters who will be joining us again soon won't be cheating anymore. They'll be caught and permanently removed if they do it again, since we know the staff can detect it.

We know the staff could detect it. Right now we see announced on the front page that they can't at present. In any event, we don't know that future offenders will be banned, because the precedent isn't that. It's the opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by booter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does everyone agree that they should be able to play again? No. Are they going to be? Yes. Were there more variables to the staff's decision than most players probably realize? Most definitely.

The other variables? Those are what trouble me. There should be no other variables. This has always been THEIR server, furiously so when defending unpopular decisions. Now they catch hundreds of accounts perverting THEIR server and, well? Suddenly the cheaters aren't the server's detriment, but rather the users disgusted by their displayed lack of testicular fortitude? Suddenly in-game subversiveness is less harmful to the server than out of game candor?

Bullshit.

The main variable is good ol' fashioned hypocrisy. It's easy to say you'll do the hard thing, but when it comes time to do it and it's still the same hard thing, well not everyone can do that. And that's best-case scenario right there: that it was just too difficult a thing to eliminate that many presumably high-profile accounts. That it was too unpalatable. And that is just disappointing.

G13 · #3 09-07-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, we know you have this fairness crusade to get TR raid suspended for two weeks, but that really isn't the topic of this thread at all. In fact, you're proving the OP's point by not going through the proper channels for it.

Of course it is. The rules are the rules and they should be enforced equally across the board. Your own guild is ignoring it's own rules as stated by your guild leader on these very boards. Development is completely ignoring the rules they put into place. You are also allowing the cheaters to re-app, and if they are part of the officer clique, they will enjoy plvling to get them back leading your raids ASAP. This has been proudly proclaimed in solidarity with your "pals".

I don't care what guild you are in. I don't care who your friends are. Rules and punishments have no bias. They are supposed to apply to everyone equally, regardless. 365 accounts caught cheating should = 365 accounts banned. Raid leaders caught cheating during a competitive raid should = raid suspension for offending guild. This should apply to any guild on the server. Period. No exceptions.

Apparently your guild cares more about loot than it's integrity. This was not always what IB claimed it stood for. Why yuor membership continues to circle the wagons is perplexing. Your reputation is in the toilet and you're just digging a deeper hole by defending your leadership who either knew about it or were too stupid to not realize it was happening right under their nose.

Quote:

This thread is about HOW/WHERE you go about questioning GM decisions and how that affects the overall health of the server - it is not the place to actually DO that.

Start a new thread for this discussion if you honestly want it to go anywhere, instead of cluttering up this surprisingly constructive thread.

This thread is about Hasbinbad trying to sweep this under the rug because the facts surrounding the situation are incredibly embarrassing to his guild. I can guarantee if the roles were reversed and a TMO Officer was caught red handed using a 3rd party hack lile Perun was, HBB would be creating thread demanding TMO be disbanded immediately and Durison tarred and feathered.

Quote:

The cheaters who will be joining us again soon won't be cheating anymore. They'll be caught and permanently removed if they do it again, since we know the staff can detect it. Does everyone agree that they should be able to play again? No. Are they going to be? Yes. Were there more variables to the staff's decision than most players probably realize? Most definitely.

This is a joke right? We're supposed to take you at your word? A guild who's raid leader cheats? A guild who's leader put people in positions of leadership who cheat? There is no possible way you can guarantee this. The only way to guarantee these cheaters never cheat again is to ban their accounts permanently. Problem solved.

Why you are associating yourself with people who cheat and are now defending them on the boards speaks volumes. Nobody gives a crap if they are "Your homeys". As far as the non cheating community is concerned, they are a disgrace.

booter · #4 09-07-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is about Hasbinbad trying to sweep this under the rug because the facts surrounding the situation are incredibly embarrassing to his guild. I can guarantee if the roles were reversed and a TMO Officer was caught red handed using a 3rd party hack lile Perun was, HBB would be creating thread demanding TMO be disbanded immediately and Durison tarred and feathered.

Just because you see everything on this server as TR vs TMO does not make it so. This thread has had a lot of great discussion, and your personal attacks and paranoia do nothing but edge it closer to RnF. By your logic, I could argue that you are trying to derail the thread to get it into the dead-end known as RnF so any discussion that doesn't fit your narrative disappears.

Nice job with all of your generalizations about every member of TR, though. At least it makes your intentions transparent.

I'll re-iterate - the thread is not about what YOU want it to be about. The OP was clearly laid out, you either need to re-read it or admit to being intellectually dishonest and just using it as a soapbox.

G13 · #5 09-07-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because you see everything on this server as TR vs TMO does not make it so. This thread has had a lot of great discussion, and your personal attacks and paranoia do nothing but edge it closer to RnF. By your logic, I could argue that you are trying to derail the thread to get it into the dead-end known as RnF so any discussion that doesn't fit your narrative disappears.

Hyperbole. You're completely ignoring every other guild on this server that is not TMO/TR that has spoken out against this ruling.

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Nice job with all of your generalizations about every member of TR, though. At least it makes your intentions transparent.

You're defending your guild whose leadership was caught using a 3rd party hack. Guild disband. Denounce the corruption and prove me wrong then.

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I'll re-iterate - the thread is not about what YOU want it to be about. The OP was clearly laid out, you either need to re-read it or admit to being intellectually dishonest and just using it as a soapbox.

The OP is about how HBB wants it to be about. This isn't cold war east germany. Many people disagree. Whether you can accept that or not is no problem of mine, but yours.

Enygmad · #6 09-07-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Love,

Sworen

booter · #7 09-07-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hyperbole. You're completely ignoring every other guild on this server that is not TMO/TR that has spoken out against this ruling.

I'm not ignoring anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're defending your guild whose leadership was caught using a 3rd party hack. Guild disband. Denounce the corruption and prove me wrong then.

I'm not defending anyone aside from Rogean/Nilbog. I haven't even explicitly stated whether or not I think the bans should be permanent because I am undecided. Again, you're generalizing and seeing things you want to see. You are under the assumption that everyone in TR wants to welcome Perun back, which is certainly not that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The OP is about how HBB wants it to be about.

Thank you. Maybe you'll re-read what he said and stay on track instead of turning this thread into a crusade. (Hint: he says to make a new post for that, and use the proper channels)