Game Mechanics: Cazic Thule 2.0 lost his pbaoe knockback dispel

[Mortdecai99]

On P99, I never junk buff my pet for this fight, as my pet never gets dispelled during it.

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Should knockback move pets?

How much should levitate mitigate the knockback effect?

Looking at the in-era video evidence again, pets definitely get flung back by the knockback and the levitated players in the video still seemed to be getting flung very far most of the time. One of the flings in the video has a couple of shaman pets not getting flung but that's probably because the range of his AE fling is 60 and in the video the pets seemed to be able to melee him from much farther away.

I'd also like to note that it's not just the CT fling that levitate extremely mitigates, it's like this for every other fling in the game. Gravity flux does barely anything when you have levitate up, which doesn't appear to be classic behavior based on how levitate doesn't mitigate flings in the video. The Tunare knockback for example does next to nothing while the tank is levitating so we never use ogre walls on Tunare ever, we just have their buff order set up so that the root can be dispelled when the tank calls for it.

It's definitely not just CT/Inny's specific fling ability that levitate is mitigating.

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by Mortdecai99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On P99, I never junk buff my pet for this fight, as my pet never gets dispelled during it.

This lines up with my experience using druid charm pets on CT and Klandicar.

[nilbog]

Personal tests seem ok for charm being removed from charmed pets from Cazic Thule's AE, but with multiple reports here there must be something else going on.

From what I see in spell data, Klandicar's Silver Breath only removes beneficial buffs, so it's not going to remove a detrimental charm 'buff'. Was Silver Breath different in classic?

[Mortdecai99]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personal tests seem ok for charm being removed from charmed pets from Cazic Thule's AE, but with multiple reports here there must be something else going on.

From what I see in spell data, Klandicar's Silver Breath only removes beneficial buffs, so it's not going to remove a detrimental charm 'buff'. Was Silver Breath different in classic?

probably not that helpful, but this is the earliest mention I found on eqarchive
https://web.archive.org/web/20020917...tml?spell=1262

Description:
1: Decrease Hit Points (HP) by 400 (L1)
2: Cancel Magic + 9 levels
Details:
Casting Time: Instant
Recast Time: 12 seconds
Skill: Evocation
Allowed Targets: Point Blank AoE
Resist: None
Range to target: 0
AE Radius: 300

[CrazyPro]

There's no data on Silver Breath for Live EQ until 2013, where it currently lists the dispel component as "Slot 2: Dispel Beneficial (95% Chance)" https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=1480

There's also no data on the Abolish Enchantment clicky from Abashi's Rod of Disempowerment on live until the same date. https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=1792

Both spells have this change at this exact same date: 05/21/2014 - Slot 2 changed from 'Dispel Beneficial (0.9% Chance)' to 'Dispel Beneficial (95% Chance)'

Both spells show up as Cancel Magic(9) on both the archived spell data Mortdecai99 listed above and the spell data gathered from EQMac: https://lucy.alkabor.com/spell_1480.html

It seems that the "Dispel Beneficial" component didn't exist until that date in 2014, where they swapped out the component and then changed the base value of the component, which was 9 for both spells from when they were using a simple dispel component, which is why it shows as being changed from a 0.9% chance to a 95% chance.

The ID for the Dispel Beneficial component is 950 which is waaay out of our era mixed in with a ton of spell components that did not exist until over a decade later in that ID number range. IDs for spell components that existed in Velious are roughly 0-119 from what I can see, with disciplines a bit further back behind mixed in with some Luclin components at 168-182. Everything past that is is just more Luclin, PoP, and <insert list of every expansion here> components.

So there should be no dispel on p99 that only dispels beneficial spells. The abashi clicky currently only dispels beneficial spells on P99 so that spell also needs to be reverted to a normal cancel magic component as well as any other spell that is using the out of era Dispel Beneficial component.

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by CrazyPro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ID for the Dispel Beneficial component is 950 which is waaay out of our era mixed in with a ton of spell components that did not exist until over a decade later in that ID number range. IDs for spell components that existed in Velious are roughly 0-119 from what I can see, with disciplines a bit further back behind mixed in with some Luclin components at 168-182. Everything past that is is just more Luclin, PoP, and <insert list of every expansion here> components.

Too late to edit this but I was reading the wrong value, the ID for the dispel beneficial component is 209 which means it was probably added in Luclin. The ID for the normal dispel component is 27. Everything else I said still adds up though, the component was definitely not changed to dispel beneficial until 2014 on any of the dispels from our era.

The 950 was actually the base value of the % chance to to dispel of the component. So the dispel strength of 9 becoming a 0.9% dispel chance when the component was initially changed makes perfect sense now.

[bivouac]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personal tests seem ok for charm being removed from charmed pets from Cazic Thule's AE, but with multiple reports here there must be something else going on.

CT's Avatar Snare works as a sort of auto-junk buff on pets as it gets reapplied every few seconds while Avatar Power only dispels the top slot ~twice a minute. You can see similar snare->dispel behavior on the player's buff bar between 6:20 and 6:36 in CrazyPro's linked video.