Charm mechanic changes next patch?

[Stonewallx39]

If you read Dolalins research it’s extremely weak. It’s not even remotely close to statistically significant or comparing like variables. The classic era (supposedly couldn’t personally verify) test had a small sample size and didn’t control for the effects of magic resistance debuffs. The test was 25 samples, and found a weak negative correlation between charisma and charm duration, where less charisma slightly improved charm duration.

I’d argue (and gosh darn it I’m a guy in the internet!) that magic resist/small level differentiation caused most of the volatility seen in the test results and as a result of a very high standard deviation the 25 sample size is not enough to draw any meaningful conclusions.

He did test magic resistance later, and found it was strongly correlated with charm duration.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Stonewallx39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you read Dolalins research it’s extremely weak. It’s not even remotely close to statistically significant or comparing like variables. The classic era (supposedly couldn’t personally verify) test had a small sample size and didn’t control for the effects of magic resistance debuffs. The test was 25 samples, and found a weak negative correlation between charisma and charm duration, where less charisma slightly improved charm duration.

I’d argue (and gosh darn it I’m a guy in the internet!) that magic resist/small level differentiation caused most of the volatility seen in the test results and as a result of a very high standard deviation the 25 sample size is not enough to draw any meaningful conclusions.

He did test magic resistance later, and found it was strongly correlated with charm duration.

the real irony is both increased MR resists and charisma check only applying on first cast or check are probably true and u can play 3 characters on takp if this game is too hard for u

also considering channeling - it's being looked into seriously by dedicated curators

P99 is really great.

It is really great at what p99 does.

The spirit and soul of classic matters too, and the feel does aswell. I'm glad Nilbog sticks to his guns and demands serious evidence. It means changes like this are more likely to stick. Still, I wish I could run my classic feeling custom box. It wouldn't be p99 though.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Stonewallx39 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you read Dolalins research it’s extremely weak. It’s not even remotely close to statistically significant or comparing like variables. The classic era (supposedly couldn’t personally verify) test had a small sample size and didn’t control for the effects of magic resistance debuffs. The test was 25 samples, and found a weak negative correlation between charisma and charm duration, where less charisma slightly improved charm duration.

I’d argue (and gosh darn it I’m a guy in the internet!) that magic resist/small level differentiation caused most of the volatility seen in the test results and as a result of a very high standard deviation the 25 sample size is not enough to draw any meaningful conclusions.

He did test magic resistance later, and found it was strongly correlated with charm duration.

The sample size is also extremely limited when it comes to mob level ranges.

There is no way to extrapolate this data, it simply is lacking.

The only possible outcome is making changes based on what it "feels" like, which p1999 never used to be about.

@loramin perhaps you and your buddies can elaborate on how the available data can be extrapolated into a model that covers caster level ranges 20-60, vs mob level ranges 20-60.

Given the high quality of the source material (which you claim anyway), this shouldn't be a problem?

Looking forward to that! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I pointed out a few posts ago, the information which is described as "excellent work", contains a statement from the poster acknowledging that said information is at best "lacking" due to a small sample size.

You conveniently ignored this, of course.

I understand disinformation and acting stupid are parts of your forum persona, so if I need to requote that a few times more lmk.

I ignored nothing (and also refrained from personal insults, something you don't seem to have the basic decency for).

I responded by pointing out that classic evidence doesn't come in nice/neat/tidy packages where someone from 1999 spells out exactly how everything worked with no controversy: virtually ALL classic evidence is some crappy two-sentence hint in the comments section of Allakhazam from 2002.

Unfortunately, that's just the reality of trying to piece together a 20+ year old game with zero original source code, from a time before the Internet was fully archived! But A) if that's all you have, you have to make the best of it, and B) Nilbog has lots more evidence that we can't see, so presumably that post wasn't the entire basis for the decision: it was just one more "break the camel's back" straw.

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@loramin perhaps you and your buddies can elaborate on how the available data can be extrapolated into a model that covers caster level ranges 20-60, vs mob level ranges 20-60.

Maybe instead of coming at this with the mentality of child who's had their toy taken away, you could have a little respect for the project you have so much passion over?

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe instead of coming at this with the mentality of child who's had their toy taken away, you could have a little respect for the project you have so much passion over?

I asked you a very simple question.

Is this strawman the best you can do, or did your reading abilities fail you?

Let me know if you need me to take this a few steps back. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I asked you a very simple question.

Is this strawman the best you can do, or did your reading abilities fail you?

Let me know if you need me to take this a few steps back. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're attacking me personally, not my argument, but you have the gaul to (misuse) logical fallacies like The Strawman Argument? You must have been a star debater at your high school.

Meanwhile, you ignored my three paragraph response to your question.

[Disease]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're attacking me personally, not my argument, but you have the gaul to (misuse) logical fallacies like The Strawman Argument? You must have been a star debater at your high school.

Meanwhile, you ignored my three paragraph response to your question.

Just post your wiki guide response and keep it moving. You complain more then anybody here and always seem to play victim when people can't take your shit anymore.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Disease [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just post your wiki guide response and keep it moving. You complain more then anybody here and always seem to play victim when people can't take your shit anymore.

lmfao ya'll remember when big ROG raged at this guy for doing.. what he always does? Shit was pretty epic.


Anyone who claims p99 isn't classic because xyz is a gigantic, and I mean colossal nerd. Considering the other option of playing this era... is to play live, where the absolute abomination of what is the commonlands and freeport exist. I don't think rooted dragons is the answer, but I don't fucking complain about it endlessly, I give my opinion and respond if somebody responds to my opinion. Then move on.

I've spoken to a shit load of enchanters who played live, you know, the ones that actually raided and belonged to enchanter only forums, and they pretty much unanimously claim that charming back then was very similar, and that it was a lack of knowledge that was the issue. I played live - I don't even think I knew enchanters could charm NPCs. I knew they gave clarity and haste. Because I was 10. And that's why i asked just about everyone I could who raided back then. Because I recognize that I wouldn't know. But if you ask Loramin, every guild on every server rotated every mob.

Still appreciate his guides though lmao, he's done good things for the community, but jesus man learn to read the room.