Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni

[Man0warr]

"Exploting" was definitely the rationale of the 3 largest Class R Guilds that presented the smaller Guilds with a draconian new ruleset for Class R with repeated ultimatums threatening to break the rotation - "they are exploiting the Class R model". They felt that smaller Guilds assisting each other with kills that they might not be able to take down 24/7 was "exploiting" and wanted to lock those Guilds out of the pixels that they wanted.

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation.

It doesn't matter at this point though. Easier to blame BDA than realizing all the guilds were to blame, large and small.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

[falkun]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

The only necessity to get on the rotation list was to ask in raid discussion to be added (which you were then added at the bottom of the list). No guild had to "prove" they could kill any raid target to get on that target's list.

The big three believed if that you should only take up the slots you could solo kill (so if it took 3 guilds to kill, that became a single entity), while the smaller guilds believed they had the right to join for certain targets but not others. The problem being the "big three" were listed once per mob, while an alliance would get to kill it every time a member came up, so a 3-guild alliance (for some mobs) would get to kill the mob thrice as often as "the big three", barring lockouts.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The big three

They were certainly big. Why should the biggest zerg guilds have dictated what was and wasn't achievable?

"Hey guys, we're taking 90 to Trakanon... why u strugglin?"

The emphasis was of course meant to be on the "casual" side of things, not what TMO etc could manage.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only necessity to get on the rotation list was to ask in raid discussion to be added (which you were then added at the bottom of the list). No guild had to "prove" they could kill any raid target to get on that target's list.

They had to kill it to stay on the list, the spreadsheet even had a different color for that scenario...

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem being the "big three" were listed once per mob, while an alliance would get to kill it every time a member came up, so a 3-guild alliance (for some mobs) would get to kill the mob thrice as often as "the big three", barring lockouts.

So what? If three guilds kill mobs in their respective slots does not 1/3 1/3 1/3 add up to one?

Regards,
Mg

[falkun]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what? If three guilds kill mobs in their respective slots does not 1/3 1/3 1/3 add up to one?

Regards,
Mg

The rotation went more like this:
Asgard (arbitrary start, with help from Azure Guard, Europa)
Bregan D`Aerth
Omni (with help from Indignation)
Azure Guard (with help from Asgard, Europa)
Taken
Indignation (with help from Omni)
Divinity
Europa (with help from Azure Guard, Asgard)


Yes I'd need to go a bit further, but you see how it quickly develops that Asgard, Azure Guard, Europa (alliance1) and Omni and Indignation (alliance2) (not historically accurate, but demonstrates my point) are killing mobs two or three times as often as guilds that kill their rotation targets solo. BDA could have cashed in on this by making guilds <Bregan>, <D`>, and <Aerth>, but we didn't. We felt that alliances should play to similar moral standards. How many solo kills did Omni have during the rotation?

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rotation went more like this:
Asgard (arbitrary start, with help from Azure Guard, Europa)
Bregan D`Aerth
Omni (with help from Indignation)
Azure Guard (with help from Asgard, Europa)
Taken
Indignation (with help from Omni)
Divinity
Europa (with help from Azure Guard, Asgard)


Yes I'd need to go a bit further, but you see how it quickly develops that Asgard, Azure Guard, Europa (alliance1) and Omni and Indignation (alliance2) (not historically accurate, but demonstrates my point) are killing mobs two or three times as often as guilds that kill their rotation targets solo. BDA could have cashed in on this by making guilds <Bregan>, <D`>, and <Aerth>, but we didn't. We felt that alliances should play to similar moral standards. How many solo kills did Omni have during the rotation?

Hey! You forgot A-Team. I think we did the bulk of our kills solo though except for a few bad hour Gorenaires.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

alliance1 ... alliance2 ... alliance3

This is a bit of an exaggeration. I seem to remember BDA and The A-Team helping each other on early morning Trakanons. So BDA was definitely playing the alliance game as well, although probably not as much. On my (very short) second stint as the guild leader, I was actually trying to ally with multiple guilds. Did not go as planned!

Originally Posted by arsenalpow

the small guilds told us to go pound sand

I still think the A-Team's counter proposal was pretty good, and BDA just wanted an excuse to break the rotation. Oh well, water over the dam now. I am curious, though, whether the staff would have preserved the R/C system in some way if the rotation was still going.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. I seem to remember BDA and The A-Team helping each other on early morning Trakanons. So BDA was definitely playing the alliance game as well, although probably not as much. On my (very short) second stint as the guild leader, I was actually trying to ally with multiple guilds. Did not go as planned!



I still think the A-Team's counter proposal was pretty good, and BDA just wanted an excuse to break the rotation. Oh well, water over the dam now. I am curious, though, whether the staff would have preserved the R/C system in some way if the rotation was still going.

Eh I think that Trak situation happened maybe one time. I think someone else was piloting Raev because I remember people texting talking about how bad the monking was, accidentally dragging Trak down onto the raid at the cubby multiple times lol.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

Letting it go Class R FFA as was built into the rotation wasn't an option?