Zeelot to disband TMO if Rogean doesn't give him an adequate answer

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by SniGlas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

U went from PoF to MiM Nirgon! Jeeez Turncoat!

Man that's just how it went in the fuckin' strug, you know?


Kag I want the server to actually try the calendar and see if they are any happier.

If so? Shit, keep it.

I have very strong suspicions otherwise.

This game was about limited content and on a much more limited time line.

You need to get a bigger picture of how long people have had to work their way up to doing content that just didn't exist on a classic time line. This server is completely flooded with insanely powerful gear (people are even like "eh a CoF heh big deal") too.

Let's say you are one of the people who is annoyed that after playing so long, you don't have a wizard epic and probably haven't even seen Venril. Okay, that sucks after a year and a half and justifiably so.

Now, we have the calendar in place. You are in a guild with 6 other wizards. We'll say you're the 2nd highest deserving wizard in the guild. Your guild gets a chance at Venril every 6 times he is up (we'll forget about how a calendar is going to handle repops because we will keep this simple). You guys kill Venril 4 times and once he drops the staff. That's going to be 48 weeks you're waiting to get the item, presuming you keep up with the other wizards raid attendence.

Realize you are still going to have to be there for mobs kills and maybe when its your turn to loot the VS staff, after a long 48 weeks of keeping yourself as #2 deserving wizard... the raid is planned on a day or at a time you can't make it.

Then you wait another 48 weeks for one to drop. Think about that.

Making a raid calendar doesn't make it rain loot. It's giving EVERYONE a chance. You are likely better off, even as the #2 guild and being extremely dedicated, at getting your epic piece from the mob than in the calendar system.

In the calendar system also, presume that they can't get the people on for 3 days. Now the # of times that mob can spawn in the year starts dropping off. Maybe a rule is made that you can't get the mob if you don't kill it in X amount of time or the next guild gets it. Let's say you're the #3 guild instead and consistently have trouble getting people on for said mob and then the #2 guild takes it. You're going to be very bitter as one of the #3 guilds most dedicated players... and frankly... given your opportunities would have been better trying to just farm and buy it from TMO because you are so dedicated.

This is all hypothesizing, but consider how long you will wait for your 1 chance at the mob and the odds of your item dropping when it is your guild's chance.

Really though, think everything through, try the calendar and see how it plays out. I think you all have enough Kunark loot to give it a chance. The staff has never prevented you from implementing such a system and should it be implemented, won't interfere with enforcing it.

I think you have a very narrow view like most people in this world that taking out the most successful people will some how magically make everything better for everyone. Or that with the #1 guild gone, some how there will be 5x as many items to go around. It all has to come from somewhere, and in your system, you will be waiting in line for a very long time. That said... imagine you are the #6 wizard in the guild... you still never get your epic.

[Kegir]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man that's just how it went in the fuckin' strug, you know?


Kag I want the server to actually try the calendar and see if they are any happier.

If so? Shit, keep it.

I have very strong suspicions otherwise.

This game was about limited content and on a much more limited time line.

You need to get a bigger picture of how long people have had to work their way up to doing content that just didn't exist on a classic time line. This server is completely flooded with insanely powerful gear (people are even like "eh a CoF heh big deal") too.

Let's say you are one of the people who is annoyed that after playing so long, you don't have a wizard epic and probably haven't even seen Venril. Okay, that sucks after a year and a half and justifiably so.

Now, we have the calendar in place. You are in a guild with 6 other wizards. We'll say you're the 2nd highest deserving wizard in the guild. Your guild gets a chance at Venril every 6 times he is up (we'll forget about how a calendar is going to handle repops because we will keep this simple). You guys kill Venril 4 times and once he drops the staff. That's going to be 48 weeks you're waiting to get the item, presuming you keep up with the other wizards raid attendence.

Realize you are still going to have to be there for mobs kills and maybe when its your turn to loot the VS staff, after a long 48 weeks of keeping yourself as #2 deserving wizard... the raid is planned on a day or at a time you can't make it.

Then you wait another 48 weeks for one to drop. Think about that.

Making a raid calendar doesn't make it rain loot. It's giving EVERYONE a chance. You are likely better off, even as the #2 guild and being extremely dedicated, at getting your epic piece from the mob than in the calendar system.

In the calendar system also, presume that they can't get the people on for 3 days. Now the # of times that mob can spawn in the year starts dropping off. Maybe a rule is made that you can't get the mob if you don't kill it in X amount of time or the next guild gets it. Let's say you're the #3 guild instead and consistently have trouble getting people on for said mob and then the #2 guild takes it. You're going to be very bitter as one of the #3 guilds most dedicated players... and frankly... given your opportunities would have been better trying to just farm and buy it from TMO because you are so dedicated.

This is all hypothesizing, but consider how long you will wait for your 1 chance at the mob and the odds of your item dropping when it is your guild's chance.

Really though, think everything through, try the calendar and see how it plays out. I think you all have enough Kunark loot to give it a chance. The staff has never prevented you from implementing such a system and should it be implemented, won't interfere with enforcing it.

I think you have a very narrow view like most people in this world that taking out the most successful people will some how magically make everything better for everyone. Or that with the #1 guild gone, some how there will be 5x as many items to go around. It all has to come from somewhere, and in your system, you will be waiting in line for a very long time. That said... imagine you are the #6 wizard in the guild... you still never get your epic.

Does anyone actually read posts that are this long? I know i don't.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Kegir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does anyone actually read posts that are this long? I know i don't.

Some things are complicated and can't be explained with just a meme/animated gif.

If you ever learn a great deal about a subject, you'll find that to be the case.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MKag I want the server to actually try the calendar and see if they are any happier.

If so? Shit, keep it.

I have very strong suspicions otherwise.

I see, so you're suggesting they try an alternative arrangement to the one they agreed upon because you think it would be less likely to be liked? So you really just want shit to devolve back into the shitfest that the raiding game on this server has been for the past few years. Thanks for bringing clarity to your intentions.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see, so you're suggesting they try an alternative arrangement to the one they agreed upon because you think it would be less likely to be liked? So you really just want shit to devolve back into the shitfest that the raiding game on this server has been for the past few years. Thanks for bringing clarity to your intentions.

You're painting me as the bad guy here, where actually, I'm a realist and you don't like my prediction based on objective reasoning.

Try the calendar, I hope it works.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're painting me as the bad guy here, where actually, I'm a realist and you don't like my prediction based on objective reasoning.

Try the calendar, I hope it works.

No, you just continually ignore the fact that they have already created an arrangement that all the top guild leaders agreed upon. Why do you keep pushing this calendar idea? An idea which you think will fail. Why would you push an idea you don't like upon people who don't like it either? You're being absurd here. Why don't we all chop off our own left hand and see how that works?

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you just continually ignore the fact that they have already created an arrangement that all the top guild leaders agreed upon. Why do you keep pushing this calendar idea? An idea which you think will fail. Why would you push an idea you don't like upon people who don't like it either? You're being absurd here. Why don't we all chop off our own left hand and see how that works?

Why does me saying I've seen how people on both sides act and making an objective prediction get you so riled?

If I can say this clearly.






I hope you guys get a rotation going and it works.

I know how the raiding players on this server act, even outside TMO.

The problem still exists where everyone doesn't get all the items they want, and I know what it leads to happening.

Maybe I will be wrong, like I said, that happens.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does me saying I've seen how people on both sides act and making an objective prediction get you so riled?

If I can say this clearly.






I hope you guys get a rotation going and it works.

I know how the raiding players on this server act, even outside TMO.

The problem still exists where everyone doesn't get all the items they want, and I know what it leads to happening.

Maybe I will be wrong, like I said, that happens.

Again, you may want to reread Rogean's post to see why the raiding players behaving as they have in the past isn't going to continue. They're on notice and they know it. And even more, the majority of players in these guilds who are reasonable people are going to be less and less inclined to put up with the bullshit. Because they know that lowering the bar to get a few pixels/pointers isn't viable long term. It's time we start to foster a culture of responsibility for our guildmates and amicable relations with other guilds.

Why do you think eqlive had server communities ranging from utter douchebaggery to gentlemanly conduct? The rules were the same on (most) servers. The communities were the difference. And that really starts at the top. I don't know most of the guild leaders here, but it seems like they are willing to step up and come together to form an arrangement, so that's a good start.

[justin2090]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you may want to reread Rogean's post to see why the raiding players behaving as they have in the past isn't going to continue. They're on notice and they know it. And even more, the majority of players in these guilds who are reasonable people are going to be less and less inclined to put up with the bullshit. Because they know that lowering the bar to get a few pixels/pointers isn't viable long term. It's time we start to foster a culture of responsibility for our guildmates and amicable relations with other guilds.

Why do you think eqlive had server communities ranging from utter douchebaggery to gentlemanly conduct? The rules were the same on (most) servers. The communities were the difference. And that really starts at the top. I don't know most of the guild leaders here, but it seems like they are willing to step up and come together to form an arrangement, so that's a good start.

I remember doing pick up raids in 99-01 because not one guild had an alt army camped at the spawn. Vox/Naggy (CoF got ninja'd) before i got to high lvl and then Zlandicar after that. Zlandicar dropped the neck piece that got /random'd (no i didn't win it). There were more pick-up raids but those are the ones I attended. There were people /ooc recruitment in EC for the raid. This couldn't happen here because a guild would just log on an alt, heal the tank, and loot the all the items once they see the /ooc for recruitment.

Raiding just wasn't so serious back then. The 10% that muck up the raiding scene here needs to be shamed. The admins have called you out and the rest of the server is behind them.

[heazels]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you may want to reread Rogean's post to see why the raiding players behaving as they have in the past isn't going to continue. They're on notice and they know it. And even more, the majority of players in these guilds who are reasonable people are going to be less and less inclined to put up with the bullshit. Because they know that lowering the bar to get a few pixels/pointers isn't viable long term. It's time we start to foster a culture of responsibility for our guildmates and amicable relations with other guilds.

Why do you think eqlive had server communities ranging from utter douchebaggery to gentlemanly conduct? The rules were the same on (most) servers. The communities were the difference. And that really starts at the top. I don't know most of the guild leaders here, but it seems like they are willing to step up and come together to form an arrangement, so that's a good start.

Crap flows downhill, #1 rule of plumbing