If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Hauling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Creationists aren't stupid, just mislead. God did not create science. Science is not a tangible thing, it's a method to find out how things work. It's about having an idea and testing it to see if it's right and then retesting it over and again to make sure prior results weren't just coincidence. There was no moment in history where we went from having no science to having science. Just like everything else, it evolved through trial and error.

it is your opinion that we are mislead, we can say the same thing about you. Maybe I should have defined what I meant by science better. God created the laws of physics, that we discovered, God created things and put an order to the universe, we just discover the truth that is already out there.

What's the obvious difference? I'm willing to bet you can't look at any one person in a crowd and tell me what their beliefs are, except for the people who hand out fliers that say I'm going to burn in hell when I'm trying to see a baseball game.

Can you LOOK at anyone and tell what they 'believe' or where they work even? No, looking has nothing to do with it. It's the persons words and actions. Someone who is allowing God to work in their life will show signs of God working in their life. I don't believe ALL of those people handing out fliers are going to heaven either, and I don't believe that running around condemning people to Hell is the Christian's position either. Getting saved is far more than just 'fire insurance' if that's all it is to you, then you're mislead anyway (not YOU specifically, you as in anyone) So, no, I can't LOOK at someone and see they're truly a Christian, but I can see by the way they act and what they do if they are. Am I saying Christians are all perfect? Nope, are we always nice all the time? No, certainly not, but a true Christian will show you their true colors if you just sit back and watch them.

We can feel wind and gravity's effects, that's how we know they exist. They can be measured in a repeatable, consistent way that every reasonable person can agree on, but I'm pretty sure I would have known they were there even if no one put a name on them. I cannot say that about god.

Just as you can feel the effects of wind and gravity, you can also feel God, it's not a physical feeling, but it is a spiritual one, and when you're in tune with what's going on there, then you truly can feel Him stirring your spirit. It's seriously inexplicable by scientific terms. So just like you say that you can know they are there without a name, I can say the same, except I can't attach a number to God's operating in my life, I can however feel His effects, and see the results in my life.

As far as your questions about why there aren't monkey human hybrids is because, in fact, there were. If you do a little reading on the subject you will find many, many missing links that have been around in the last half million years or so. Climate conditions, inter species relations and other factors have since eliminated them. Just as monkeys today fight with other monkeys, our ancestors fought with the other branches of the evolutionary chain for survival. And for your point about why there aren't people with higher IQ's, we are the people with higher IQ's and better social and communication skills that survived all of that.

Just because you say we're the ones who survived, does that mean then we're the perfect evolution of human? No, of course not he answered, because we're constantly evolving...which is EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make here. You can attempt to explain the gaping holes in the THEORY of evolution, however your attempts to explain those gaping holes are even less justifiable than God is in your eyes. Oh, we made it because of climate conditions, or inter species relations. That has nothing to do with it, do people adapt? Absolutely, but that's not the theory of evolution, that's just how God created us. God isn't so short sighted to create us with the inability to fight off diseases and climate differences et all. That's the thing, that I would argue vs the people who say that evolutionists are smarter than creationists.

Evolutionists are just trying to simplify God, and creation. To them, everything must have a reason, an exact action and reaction, it has to be measurable, which just isn't true, there are many things in the world that cannot be explained. There are complexities about our Universe, our Planet, and beyond that are so far beyond the realm of understanding it's impossible for the finite human mind to fathom. Those things require faith, faith to believe that God inspired those things and He is in control, or faith to believe that calamity occurred and there is no reasoning behind those things (which completely goes against science's ability to test, and prove, and reprove to verify their existence)

And if you need further evidence of how this works, just look at the different races of people. It's no coincidence that a black man and a black woman have black babies nor a white man and a white woman have white babies. How many genocides of entire populations have there been, just in our recorded history?

Races have nothing to do with it, God created that too, just like He created DNA, something 'science' has only recently discovered, but has been there since the beginning of man. That's like saying me planting a seed for an apple tree should randomly have a chance of creating an orange, not at all true, God is a God of order, not a God of confusion. Genocides or attempted Genocides, what does this have to do with evolution that couldn't simply be explained through the fact that humans are flawed?

Seriously, we could obviously go back and forth on this for...eternity. I don't mind having a good debate here, in fact I like it, I'm not scared of it. I'm firm in my beliefs, as you are in yours, I doubt either of us is going to shake the other and force them to believe something different through this thread, but I do hope that maybe I can make you realize that all Christians are bigots and ignorant and closed off to things and won't simply write things off without listening and comprehending, and giving a response that is more than just "I'm going to take my ball and go home."

I really believe that proper science will one day come to a point where it can do nothing but prove the existence of God by discovering truths along the way that God himself put in place.

btw, thanks for at least being willing to have a decent conversation, and not being all crazy with just trying to call me a retard, or some elementary school style approach to debate/conversation.

[Henini]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really don't understand the principles of Evolution do you? Please go get the cliff-notes of Darwin's book, Origin of Species.

stop with your blasphemy, god created the perfect humans that we are (well rocketmoose, I was created by my mom and dad) and he's created moneys. just they way they are.... 2011 years ago.

ohh wait never mind! :P

[Succession]

Originally Posted by Hauling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a rock that keeps bears away. I'll sell it to you for $500. Would you rather go the rest of your life in danger of being attacked by a bear, or would you rather buy my rock and be disappointed in the event it doesn't work?

I'm pretty certain being a just-in-case believer doesn't count from everything I've ever heard about religion. It's like telling Santa Claus you've been a good boy when you've been stealing the other kids' lunch money.

Yes! I will gladly purchase your bear-deterent rock if it is all that you can do to provide for your family. If not, I'd find my own.
But no, I'm not a just in case believer that was simply just a peculiar scenario.

[Henini]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Races have nothing to do with it, God created that too, just like He created DNA, something 'science' has only recently discovered, but has been there since the beginning of man.
of course he created everything, even the other gods of other religions right?

That's like saying me planting a seed for an apple tree should randomly have a chance of creating an orange, not at all true
seriously are you doing it on purpose to twist things to spew out none sense?
God is a God of order, not a God of confusion.
OK
Genocides or attempted Genocides, what does this have to do with evolution that couldn't simply be explained through the fact that humans are flawed?
we are his most perfect creation, yet we are flawed... but he is god of order? So you are implying that your god really sucks at what he does. but how is that possible, he is god?

Thanks for the lulz!


I can see though how you can't grasp or comprehend anything we are saying properly, it must be a very scary world you live in. having an imaginary friend (god) that reassure you must help a lot. Since he's the explanation to everything.

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really don't understand the principles of Evolution do you? Please go get the cliff-notes of Darwin's book, Origin of Species.

It seems to me that you mistake the end-goal of evolution to be complex, and human-like. Evolution isn't solely about increasing complexity. Humans aren't the pinnacle of evolution. Apes aren't becoming more like you and I because they don't need to.

Here's a scenario:
Two groups of apes, one lives deep in the forest, the other at the edge.
Over time, (10 thousand years, lets say) the forest monkeys keep living in the forest, and only the ones that are very good at climbing trees and grabbing fruit and are thus more healthy. This makes them desirable to female monkeys. They breed more. The ones bad at climbing don't mate, because they are sickly, or too muscular to climb well. They are not attractive to the other sex. Over 100 generations, only the monkeys good at climbing make more monkeys, which are, typically good at climbing. These are the concepts known as Fitness and natural selection. One trait was better ADAPTED and thus a benefit over another. It won the competition and stayed around. The other (non-climbing) wasn't aiding in the survival of the monkeys, so that trait wasn't passed on as often as climbing, agile monkeys.

Let's look at the other group, the forest edge monkeys: They can find food both in trees and on the plains away from trees. Over 100 generations, the forest shrunk and they had to compete with the climbing monkeys deeper in the forest, this was a battle that they wouldn't win, all the fruit was gone, taken by the better climbing monkeys deep in the forest. So they stick to food on the plains. But the grass is tall, so they learn to stand up and look over the grass. Now the tall, strong monkeys that can see danger, and carry lots of food to the family are the ones that are healthier and sought after. The short agile monkeys are at a disadvantage and don't breed often. This physical characteristic eventually dies out.
Over millions of years, this group of monkeys will grow very tall, be able to run long distances, and ditch all the body hair, because it's hot in the sun. They become 'human'.

The forest monkeys stayed short, agile, strong, and excellent tree climbers. WHY?
Because they didn't need to. The monkeys that were good at living in trees a million years ago had the same body shape as today because it's perfect for the monkeys lifestyle, climbing trees for food.

So you can drop that idea that evolution is a downloading progress bar, with the 20% complete, or 80% monkey nonsense.
Evolution is not a conveyor belt to being human.

Yes, but you see, at some point we did come from primates right? So in this theory that you've postalized then there would still be a need for some of these monkeys to become humans in order to survive as we continue to kill off their natural habitats thus forcing out their food supply vs population and forcing someone to survive and some to fail. So right now this process would still be happening. Same would be true for a human that is forced to live out in the caves, and do things only at night he would 'devolve' to suit his condition better right?

You have these gaping holes that you can't explain. Your 2 nice neat vacuum scenarios don't work in the real life situation. It's just like physics in a classroom, they designate a coefficient of friction etc to come up with a world to do their work, and prove that they are right. Those truths are in fact in the world, and absolutely make perfect sense, because they are out there, but those scenarios you present don't disprove God, or prove evolution.

Never in the Bible did it say that man can't adapt, that God's creation can't change in order to be better at things. That's why we practice, it's not because our bodies don't have the ability to do things, it's that we haven't learned how to do them, or haven't learned how to do them as effectively as possible.

If evolution were true, then how is it that just innately that some people in today's generation have 0 physical ability to do something athletic. The skinny guys, and girls who end up behind a computer with the typical stereotype. Then same can be said for guys who are just innately born with a gift for athletics, even if their parents weren't. Same would be true with the monkeys. Not every small agile monkey would be the best climber, not every big powerful monkey would be unable to climb well. I mean c'mon, seriously, in the 'perfect world' that you've created, absolutely it makes perfect since, but there are things that science can not yet explain, that are out there.

I have a buddy of mine, amazing athlete, his brother by the same parents, no athletic ability what so ever. They were raised in the same house, doing similar activities, in what way does this support your theory of blacks being born to blacks etc?

People keep saying I'm the one with no reason, yet when I come to you with a real world scenario you're not going to have anything to say, because science can't say why, because science isn't creation.

I don't blindly believe, if I did I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. Bring me a fact, not something you've just come up with out of nowhere. Like how can you explain this...

My friend's Uncle, was one of the healthiest, best athletes, and just all around just the ideal physical specimen. Yet Thanksgiving day he wakes up out of nowhere with this huge pain in his stomach, goes to the hospital, and they found a tumor the size of a football in his stomach. They found out that it was cancerous and told him he had a couple of weeks, to a couple of months to live. So this is something that science proved to in fact be real, and be there.

Yet, a few weeks later he went back in and without surgery, without anything going on because they didn't think chemo was worth it, the tumor was gone, and he was given a 100% clean bill of health.

What does your science have to say about that? Cause I know what the non-Christian doctor said. And I assure you it had nothing to do with science, medicine or anything else 'tangible'

[RocketMoose]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the lulz!


I can see though how you can't grasp or comprehend anything we are saying properly, it must be a very scary world you live in. having an imaginary friend (god) that reassure you must help a lot. Since he's the explanation to everything.

You have yet to refute anything I have to say with anything other than playground tactics. You can attempt to demean me, and act as if I have no ability to reason, when the fact remains, I'm still here, I still can debate, and I will continue to debate, using my 'evolved' mind.

I can flip what you say just as you can attempt to flip what I say. Watch:

I can see how you can't grasp or comprehend anything about God and creation, it must be a very scary world you live in, having to go around believing that everything is random happenstance and that you only exist by pure chance. Oh wait, you were 'chosen' by evolution, since that's the explanation to everything.

See how easy that is? Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be able to do that because I have no ability to grasp, or comprehend anything you say though, cause you operate on much more evolved level than I do.

I really do feel for you guy/gal. Hope for your sake you're right about everything, sure would hate for it to all come down to the end for you to find out just how wrong and deceived you were.

[Japan]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unlike you, I was making a point, not trying to show to the world how smart I am.

In wording your statements weakly and thereby eroding the position of the other people in this thread trying to fight ignorance. I'm sorry you didn't get my point, but it was that you are a fucking idiot.

[Japan]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, but you see, at some point we did come from primates right? So in this theory that you've postalized then there would still be a need for some of these monkeys to become humans in order to survive as we continue to kill off their natural habitats thus forcing out their food supply vs population and forcing someone to survive and some to fail. So right now this process would still be happening. Same would be true for a human that is forced to live out in the caves, and do things only at night he would 'devolve' to suit his condition better right?

You are ignorant of the nature of evolution. This process is still happening, by definition, as long as organisms are reproducing. To imply that a human would change genetically after his birth is a ludicrous misunderstanding of biology.

Never in the Bible did it say that man can't adapt, that God's creation can't change in order to be better at things. That's why we practice, it's not because our bodies don't have the ability to do things, it's that we haven't learned how to do them, or haven't learned how to do them as effectively as possible.

non-sequitur, unless you're confusing genetic variation with learned behavior in which case lol

If evolution were true, then how is it that just innately that some people in today's generation have 0 physical ability to do something athletic. The skinny guys, and girls who end up behind a computer with the typical stereotype...

False premise, once again apparent confusion of genetic variation with physical conditioning

My friend's Uncle, was one of the healthiest, best athletes, and just all around just the ideal physical specimen. Yet Thanksgiving day he wakes up out of nowhere with this huge pain in his stomach, goes to the hospital, and they found a tumor the size of a football in his stomach. They found out that it was cancerous and told him he had a couple of weeks, to a couple of months to live. So this is something that science proved to in fact be real, and be there.

Yet, a few weeks later he went back in and without surgery, without anything going on because they didn't think chemo was worth it, the tumor was gone, and he was given a 100% clean bill of health.

What does your science have to say about that? Cause I know what the non-Christian doctor said. And I assure you it had nothing to do with science, medicine or anything else 'tangible'

Oh no! An unfalsifiable anecdotal story with no supporting evidence! Evolution has been disproved.

[Henini]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, but you see, at some point we did come from primates right? So in this theory that you've postalized then there would still be a need for some of these monkeys to become humans in order to survive as we continue to kill off their natural habitats thus forcing out their food supply vs population and forcing someone to survive and some to fail. So right now this process would still be happening. Same would be true for a human that is forced to live out in the caves, and do things only at night he would 'devolve' to suit his condition better right?
where on earth are there humans that have been living in caves for 10 000 + years right now. again you are retarded and fail to grasp any kind of concept?

You have these gaping holes that you can't explain. Your 2 nice neat vacuum scenarios don't work in the real life situation. It's just like physics in a classroom, they designate a coefficient of friction etc to come up with a world to do their work, and prove that they are right. Those truths are in fact in the world, and absolutely make perfect sense, because they are out there, but those scenarios you present don't disprove God, or prove evolution.

Never in the Bible did it say that man can't adapt, that God's creation can't change in order to be better at things. That's why we practice, it's not because our bodies don't have the ability to do things, it's that we haven't learned how to do them, or haven't learned how to do them as effectively as possible.
by your logic, if I can't turn my head 360 degrees, it's not because I can't do it, it's just because I don't know how. can you show me how please? (since evolution doesn't exist)

If evolution were true, then how is it that just innately that some people in today's generation have 0 physical ability to do something athletic. The skinny guys, and girls who end up behind a computer with the typical stereotype. Then same can be said for guys who are just innately born with a gift for athletics, even if their parents weren't. Same would be true with the monkeys. Not every small agile monkey would be the best climber, not every big powerful monkey would be unable to climb well. I mean c'mon, seriously, in the 'perfect world' that you've created, absolutely it makes perfect since, but there are things that science can not yet explain, that are out there.

I have a buddy of mine, amazing athlete, his brother by the same parents, no athletic ability what so ever. They were raised in the same house, doing similar activities, in what way does this support your theory of blacks being born to blacks etc?

yes, black people regularly give birth to chinese and caucasian. loll
as for your "two brothers" argument. natural physical selection does not apply to humans now days. we have evolved to a point where a vast selection of traits are acceptable and non of them will mean that you will die of hunger. you can even be paraplegic and live a good life now days. but again, you fail to grasp the most simple concept

People keep saying I'm the one with no reason, yet when I come to you with a real world scenario you're not going to have anything to say, because science can't say why, because science isn't creation.
no actually, your the one twisting things and totally ignoring the modern reality to try and spin things your way

I don't blindly believe, if I did I wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. Bring me a fact, not something you've just come up with out of nowhere. Like how can you explain this...
we been doing this for 50+ pages, you just refuse to admit 2+2=4

My friend's Uncle, was one of the healthiest, best athletes, and just all around just the ideal physical specimen. Yet Thanksgiving day he wakes up out of nowhere with this huge pain in his stomach, goes to the hospital, and they found a tumor the size of a football in his stomach. They found out that it was cancerous and told him he had a couple of weeks, to a couple of months to live. So this is something that science proved to in fact be real, and be there.

Yet, a few weeks later he went back in and without surgery, without anything going on because they didn't think chemo was worth it, the tumor was gone, and he was given a 100% clean bill of health.

What does your science have to say about that? Cause I know what the non-Christian doctor said. And I assure you it had nothing to do with science, medicine or anything else 'tangible'
Obviously your god decided to heal him but not the other 100000000 sick people, it's the only possible explanation!

[Henini]

Originally Posted by RocketMoose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really do feel for you guy/gal. Hope for your sake you're right about everything, sure would hate for it to all come down to the end for you to find out just how wrong and deceived you were.

Yes, I do live my life in fear of going to hell lloooll