Sebilis Crypt Camp

[Millburn]

Is this really so difficult to mediate?

Just do it like this.

Crypt is a 4 slot camp, any individual or group can claim any part(s) of the 4 slot camp that they demonstrate as having the ability to clear and maintain and is not presently claimed by another individual or group. BAM done.

[quido]

Yes Teppler, it's an anomaly. I tried to be a jerk years ago and claim Hiero while a group was elsewhere in the crypt, per the standard rules. The higher-ups (Rogean and Uthgaard) agreed that Crypt would be treated as a single camp (and emp another camp) and that you didn't have to maintain a presence at each named spawn to claim it. However, if you left the crypt to goto emp, you possibly relinquish your rights to the crypt.

One time I was killing Hiero and Duke and the group that was at Chef (containing Calabee) wiped and asked for my help with a CR since they knew I had a rogue parked at the door. While I was still dragging their last 2 corpses, a few of them decided to be jackasses and bumrushed the crypt and claimed it (it was easier to get down there then). I logged back on my shaman, waited for them to leave to goto emp, and reclaimed Hiero and Duke. Well they came back, didn't agree with my claim, and KSed a non-cloak Hiero named from me. I petitioned, and didn't get a response, so I trained the fuck out of the group 10 minutes later. Well it turns out Ambrotos was there watching and was about the hand my two named back to me, but he decided not to because of the train lol.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which camps can you only claim a portion of? When does this apply? Does it apply to straight XP camps as well as high value item camps? As it's defined currently in the rules we have posted (which, i should add, we can mediate at our discretion, but i'd rather have something clearly defined that the players can follow, rather than being called in every 5 minutes to mediate camp disputes), this kind of thing isn't allowed because the crypt is 1 camp and you must demonstrate and exercise your ability to hold the camp in order to claim it.

Maybe you're new here, but no matter what the rules are, you're going to be called in every 5 minutes. And changing the rules suddenly, as you have just done, is only going to encourage the rules lawyers to call you up in the future

[loramin]

Can i just beg the GMs to not ignore the community? This forum community can't agree on anything, but everyone here seems to agree that it's incredibly lame for a soloer who is camping a mob to have that mob stolen by a group that comes along just because the group is bigger. The idea of that seems to directly contradict the spirit of P99, and I think that's why the community is reacting so strongly. This forum rarely has a consensus on anything, so when it does I think that's significant.

When it seems (like it does in this case) that its Derubai vs. everyone, then perhaps Derubai is not doing a good job of explaining why the old way of doing things was so problematic for the GMs. I completely understand that Derubai, and the GMs in general, have concerns the rest of us don't (they have to deal with the fallout of these decisions), but I think for them to completely ignore such unified opposition to this ruling is a mistake.

Please don't delete my post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I like how it went from playerA to assholeA. Your bias in this situation is showing. You clearly felt you have been wronged in this situation before and now are trying to punish people who don't play as you would like them to.

Keep your irrelevant commentary out of this discussion, thanks.

Yes, I suspect that people would be upset when rules are laid out in the forums and a guide doesn't follow them. I also suspect people would be upset when a police officer showed up to their house and didn't follow the laws written down in the books. I don't even understand your point here. You aren't going to make everyone happy. So why not just follow the rules that are already in place instead of creating some new rule for this situation?

You mean like this one:

Originally Posted by Xzerion

Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp. If you have no competition in the zone, you are more than welcome to hold as many as you like. The moment another party wants to claim a camp and you are "farming" multiple, you must decide which camp you want and forfeit the ones someone else is interested in. We still expect players to use the courtesy camp check before zerging a room. If there is a full spawn of mobs in a camp room up I think that would be considered not camped. How you pull the camp is up to you, as long as you are able to engage the mobs very shortly after they are spawned.

Hmm. Seems to be a clearly defined rule posted in the Camp, defined thread.

Originally Posted by Orruar

Very simple. Whatever a person was clearing prior to a group moving is considered their camp. We don't have any pre-defined camps anyway. If a person wants to clear just the mobs inside the efreeti room and leave the rest of the trash up, why shouldn't they be allowed to? If another group comes in and starts doing the efreeti trash for xp, why shouldn't they both be happy in this situation? And if the person camping efreeti accidentally agros one of the mobs that belongs to the group, they can take it over to the group and offer it to them. Is it really that hard to apply common sense to this situation?

So if I'm a solo player killing a couple mobs in the GY in Mistmoore and a full group comes in to XP there, that full group has to work around the one player killing 2 mobs in that camp? What if he's killing 4 mobs, but can't clear any of the rest in time? That GY group of 6 basically has to move on to a different camp (which may or may not be available in that zone) because 1 guy is screwing that camp for the 6 people trying to XP there. "its all so simple" but you clearly don't see the problem with your reasoning, or why it's important to clearly define things.

Do you understand this point?

Do you understand mine?

[fadetree]

To the staff :

How many routinely contested camps are there? 50 or so, tops? Why don't you just rigidly define and name each camp in terms of exactly what it comprises, and lay down exact rules for each camp or portion thereof? Then publish it in a document and then tell everybody to stfu and follow the document. If they don't like the camp definitions or the rules, they can go run their own server.

It will be a pain to get it written up, but I bet you would win big over time by not having to deal with everybody's opinions as to what a camp is and whats allowed.

[Spitty]

Derubael, you're best served by not turning this into quote-fest and spending some time thinking about your position here.

Imaginary scenarios, as fun as they are to use for strengthening your argument, are nowhere near the idiocy that I've witnessed or been subject to at this particular camp and never petitioned.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dumb ruling.

Someone intent on camping a single mob should not be forced to clear other mobs if they don't want them. Requiring someone to kill mobs against their will is pretty much slavery.

[Coolname]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the staff :

How many routinely contested camps are there? 50 or so, tops? Why don't you just rigidly define and name each camp in terms of exactly what it comprises, and lay down exact rules for each camp or portion thereof? Then publish it in a document and then tell everybody to stfu and follow the document. If they don't like the camp definitions or the rules, they can go run their own server.

It will be a pain to get it written up, but I bet you would win big over time by not having to deal with everybody's opinions as to what a camp is and whats allowed.

This^^

[Nastinate]

As Ive always understood it here and on live one person and or group can only lay claim to one named, set camps with more than one named were regulated by the players. Ive had groups on live and here on p1999 muscle into crypt while we have been clearing all the mobs, all you can do is just turtle into the heiro or duke room and wait em out, its classic. I honestly do not understand the problem as a gm if u receive a petition from a couple groups in crypt fighting over spawn's You just ask which one they are camping group a says heiro group b says duke, everything else is uncamped and up for grabs, problem solved. Personally ive always respected anyone be it solo or a group's right to camp the entire crypt so long as they can keep it all down within spawn time.