I want to level in groups as a Wizard

[am0]

Pretty new player just getting started here.

I really like the idea of Wizards but I prefer not to play solo.

Is this just not viable? Am I going to have a bad time?

[Zuranthium]

Without the best gear, Wizard is not a fun class to play on Blue server IMO, and you'll be one of the last picks for groups. I'd say it's the weakest class in the game for general grouping actually, if you don't have the key gear (and as a new player it's going to be a very long time before you'll be able to get even a single piece of it).

[commongood]

This particular game on this particular server is, to a large extent, about nostalgia. And if you really enjoy the nostalgia boost of playing your wizard then do it. You can still get groups. You will likely occasionally run into min/max'ers that gun hard for optimized play and will argue that your class won't contribute as much as the rogue that's also LFG even though you were there first.

But you should be aware that EverQuest in Velious was not very well balanced in regards to the classes. Wizards definitely has somewhat the short end of the stick in some areas. And the grind to 60 is long and hard so maybe ask yourself if your nostalgia is enough to choose wizard over another class that might offer more.

[Solist]

You bring 5 things to groups in order of usefulness in XP.
CC+snare
Interrupts
High Aggro
Eye pulls+bind sight tracking around+general awareness
Evac.

Damage is not a wizard's job, you're literally the worst class in the game at it, a meleeing cleric is more DPS at all levels. So learn to be real good at the others with your rather OP click aggro stick, roots, stuns etc.

Of those things you bring to the group, other classes bring the equivelant and more. So, make friends, and be solid at making your presence useful.

[ScaringChildren]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damage is not a wizard's job, you're literally the worst class in the game at it, a meleeing cleric is more DPS at all levels.

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[Troxx]

Originally Posted by ScaringChildren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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For groups it’s actually true most of the time. Wizards can explode things quickly but the amount of down time required to meditate puts them dead last. Sustained over time in a group that can keep a mob in camp? You can only put out damage as fast as you can meditate the mana back. Level 60 Sunstrike with evocation spec is 4 dmg per mana return.

Sustained at 60 with meditate only: 14 dps
With c2: 21.23 dps
With c2 and potg: 25dps
With c2 potg and 55 bard song: 33.3 dps

Compare to a dedicated dps Druid? Less efficient nuking but thorns is hugely efficient damage per mana. Druid will sustain (not burst) higher than wizards at all levels of play.

Compared to mage/necro? Their summon pets alone will sustain more damage than a fully buffed wizard. Mage in particular is monster sustained dps.

Wizards are a one trick pony that can do some side jobs that many other classes can also do (and do better).

I don’t mind grouping with wizards but they are not a good group dps class. They’re unfortunately the worst.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For groups it’s actually true most of the time. Wizards can explode things quickly but the amount of down time required to meditate puts them dead last. Sustained over time in a group that can keep a mob in camp? You can only put out damage as fast as you can meditate the mana back. Level 60 Sunstrike with evocation spec is 4 dmg per mana return.

Sustained at 60 with meditate only: 14 dps
With c2: 21.23 dps
With c2 and potg: 25dps
With c2 potg and 55 bard song: 33.3 dps

Compare to a dedicated dps Druid? Less efficient nuking but thorns is hugely efficient damage per mana. Druid will sustain (not burst) higher than wizards at all levels of play.

Compared to mage/necro? Their summon pets alone will sustain more damage than a fully buffed wizard. Mage in particular is monster sustained dps.

Wizards are a one trick pony that can do some side jobs that many other classes can also do (and do better).

I don’t mind grouping with wizards but they are not a good group dps class. They’re unfortunately the worst.

Interesting calculations, although your numbers are off because Wizards also get harvest, and you used sunstrike whereas rain spells are more efficient if you know how/when to use them, the last one with evo spec being 5.3 DPM. Are they down there with pallies as the worst dps group class? Yea pretty much but they're not nearly as garbage as people tend to say. I've saved a good amount of hole groups with evac as well.

Also, OP, if you intend to raid, then at 60 you have a viable raiding class that are key for mobilization with huge bane nukes. If you went mage for more sustained group dps, at 60 you're a coth bot in the raid scene. Plus if you do raid and get the VP robe on a wizard, you're at around 55 manaless dps! More when you throw in occasional nukes. Velks robe is a bit lower but much easier to acquire with moderate raiding.

Every class is good in their own way. Ultimately it comes down to the individual. If you don't suck and understand and know how to play your class, people will notice and welcome you in regardless.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting calculations, although your numbers are off because Wizards also get harvest, and you used sunstrike whereas rain spells are more efficient if you know how/when to use them, the last one with evo spec being 5.3 DPM. Are they down there with pallies as the worst dps group class? Yea pretty much but they're not nearly as garbage as people tend to say. I've saved a good amount of hole groups with evac as well.

Rain spells on p99 are beyond broken and thus ultimately useless due to terrible resistance coding.

You are correct that I didn’t factor in harvest but I also didn’t take a few things into account to include:

-my numbers assumed you get every Med tick every time (not going to happen cast time is 7 seconds)
-my numbers assumed you never get a resist (partial or full) — not going to happen
-my numbers assume you never wast dps (1600dmg nuke on a target with 1khp remaining)
-my numbers assume you never fizzle
-my numbers assume you never cast any other spell ever
-my numbers assume you’re level 60 using only the really efficient nuke

So yeah absent a clicky nuke robe the numbers I quoted are a best case scenario that will never happen. Clicky robe comes out to 41.667 dps if chain clicked and never resisted. It definitely helps a ton but still doesn’t close the gap enough unfortunately. It really is a shame that wizards are so ineffective unless hard burning a group named or kunark era low hp raid mob.

On the flip side these numbers also assume you always have mobs in camp. Every moment not spent actively fighting the wizard does accumulate potential dps when other classes aren’t actively meleeing a mob down, but this fact also holds true for wizard class prime competitor Druid and mage.

[AegnorP99]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sustained at 60 with meditate only: 14 dps
With c2: 21.23 dps
With c2 and potg: 25dps
With c2 potg and 55 bard song: 33.3 dps

Thanks for crunching the numbers.

I just wanted to add to this by pointing out how these numbers improve with a good clicky robe. The more easily obtained robe from Velketor does 625 damage with a 15 second cast time. This isn't really "free damage" as you miss out on an average of 2.5 med ticks or 50 mana during your cast. Thus, the robe becomes your best nuke with a damage per mana of 625/50 or 12.5 which is more than 3x better than the dpm of Ice Spear of Solist (your best single target nuke). Factoring this in changes things quite a bit. I won't take the time to calculate your potential sustained dps for the scenarios quoted above (you'll still cast real nukes from time to time), but just know that it gets better.

[beargryllz]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You bring 5 things to groups in order of usefulness in XP.
CC+snare
Interrupts
High Aggro
Eye pulls+bind sight tracking around+general awareness
Evac.

Damage is not a wizard's job, you're literally the worst class in the game at it, a meleeing cleric is more DPS at all levels. So learn to be real good at the others with your rather OP click aggro stick, roots, stuns etc.

Of those things you bring to the group, other classes bring the equivelant and more. So, make friends, and be solid at making your presence useful.

10/10 CAPITAL TROLL