Serious discussion about Charisma after Charm Nerf

Fawqueue · #1 02-16-2010, 04:27 AM

I'm just curious what everyone thinks of stacking Charisma after the charm nerf? It seems to play little part in charm breaks (many reports in the patch thread about having issues even with low-levels, as well as first-hand experience). So is there any reason to waste half the gear slots on CHA gear as opposed to simply stacking INT and STA at this point? It's a little disheartening to waste time and money getting 200+ CHA only to have it seem like it was all pointless. And if that's the case, I almost think the additional mana would help more in the long-run. Any thoughts?

Trimm · #2 02-16-2010, 11:20 AM

As a non-enchanter, my only question is how did charm work in Classic? Was it the overpowered-charm-reds-and-yellows-for-full-duration charm like we had, or this new 'nerfed' blues-only-last-about-60-seconds charm we have now?

While I personally think charm was hugely overpowered before, if that's how it was in classic then I guess that's what it should go back to.

Danth · #3 02-16-2010, 11:21 AM

My primary recollection with classic Charm was that the overwhelming majority of Enchanters regarded it as worthless/suicidal and rarely/never used it.

Danth

vageta31 · #4 02-16-2010, 11:36 AM

Charm was never this powerful in classic. Period. On top of that other classes that usually had low charisma and could charm were able to do so based on purely your level vs the mob and it's magic resist. CHA was supposed to be the least important part of the 3 and what made enchanters have a small advantage over others, it was simply made the most important here. Charm may seem stupidly weak now, but it's only because it was so OP before. In classic you could never charm an even con or above and have it for very long. You had to focus on dark blues and debuff them well enough so it'd last. As a Shaman I used to charm Rhinos and such in The Overthere and I remember it lasting for about 2-3 fights max. In fact I never intended on keeping it long, I'd basically let the mob get beat up purposely so that by the time it killed 2 other mobs I could finish it off easily.

It seems a huge number of people rolled chanters to take advantage of the OP charm but are now upset because they don't get to. I agree it sucks, but if you were rolling a chanter just to take advantage of something obviously broken then that was a risk that didn't work out for you. It was quite funny to see how the CHA items that used to sell for so much, drop in price overnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bakaris · #5 02-16-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vageta31 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm was never this powerful in classic. Period. On top of that other classes that usually had low charisma and could charm were able to do so based on purely your level vs the mob and it's magic resist. CHA was supposed to be the least important part of the 3 and what made enchanters have a small advantage over others, it was simply made the most important here. Charm may seem stupidly weak now, but it's only because it was so OP before. In classic you could never charm an even con or above and have it for very long. You had to focus on dark blues and debuff them well enough so it'd last. As a Shaman I used to charm Rhinos and such in The Overthere and I remember it lasting for about 2-3 fights max. In fact I never intended on keeping it long, I'd basically let the mob get beat up purposely so that by the time it killed 2 other mobs I could finish it off easily.

It seems a huge number of people rolled chanters to take advantage of the OP charm but are now upset because they don't get to. I agree it sucks, but if you were rolling a chanter just to take advantage of something obviously broken then that was a risk that didn't work out for you. It was quite funny to see how the CHA items that used to sell for so much, drop in price overnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Problem is now, that I cant charm a blue con mob for a whole fight. (lvl 29 enc, 212 cha) And yes I do tash. And agro on enc is just... retarded. Seems broken to me.

excalis · #6 02-16-2010, 12:12 PM

I had an Chanter and even with the nerfs on live was very successful with it soloing with charm. I used all of my abilities with nothing geared toward CHA and rocked it.

CHA to me was worthless and just focused on INT, STA. The only main thing I did not like was that you were unable to charm a PC when dueling after a charm change. I soloed my Chanter and most of it was using charm, then the better native pets with AA bouncing between the two depending on the situation.

I did have some good charm breaks that resulted in deaths but once I learned how to use what I had I hardly died, if I did it was my fault for not following my tactics correctly. Research is key, mob HP, resistance, level, etc all fall into place when charming and if they are worth using. Charm to me was just a random deal like invis, just have to be prepared for it when it breaks.

I remember when they nerfed charm and folks were complaining about it, I just said F"it and kept on trucking and proved chanters could solo well. I also used to charm mobs that could not be mezzed as a form of CC, course you can only have one mob at a time charmed but could use it to help DPS, etc. I recall once when raiding Vindi we had an add which I picked up and used to finish off the encounter.

Druid and Chanter combo was awesome when charming using their snare.

I am tempted to drop my necro I am working on and make another chanter, but wanted to try something new this time around. Good luck!

vageta31 · #7 02-16-2010, 12:44 PM

I think chanters are just going to have to adapt their strategies and use charm differently. They've been spoiled into just finding the best mob to charm, then keep it as a pet as long as the group wanted. Now they will have to use charm I think more of the way it was intended, as a way to pull an additional mob out of a fight temporarily. You borrow it's DPS and let it tank so that when charm breaks (intentionally or unintentionally) it is already low on hps and ready for killing.

In this way charm is still great, just not meant for keeping a pet long term. With this method at least you're taking a mob out of the fight and getting extra dps and letting other mobs take down it's hps.

excalis · #8 02-16-2010, 12:50 PM

In groups i would keep a good pet and just have druid snare it and heal it. PoD had some worm type mobs I used to use and we were successful keeping the same mob. When soloing I would let my charmed mob get a certain level in HP then finish it off by breaking charm, or charming another mob and using it to kill my former pet.

Rune, distance, root, stuns, all helped. Ahhh the memories...

OneTrueBru · #9 02-16-2010, 01:00 PM

I'm a bit miffed, but only because I'm a colossal idiot and thought "Oh hey, CHA is awesome here? I'll just go ahead and dump all my bard's bonus points there". Hurf-durf.

Debating rerolling to STA, but honestly, I don't know if I can be bothered.

excalis · #10 02-16-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneTrueBru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a bit miffed, but only because I'm a colossal idiot and thought "Oh hey, CHA is awesome here? I'll just go ahead and dump all my bard's bonus points there". Hurf-durf.

Debating rerolling to STA, but honestly, I don't know if I can be bothered.

I hear ya, eventually since we are kind of following how live was with removals, etc the charm (and CHA changes?) nerfs will come. Sucks man, you can always try and make up STA with gear.