[Uggme]

Been meaning to respond to this.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an internal matter for the guild, and not something that is really any particular concern of the server staff to allow of disallow. Other guilds also have no business concerning themselves with TMO's internal policy on the matter. That said, here's the logic behind the system which has worked very well so far. (Yes, there have been major hiccups, but the system still prospers despite them.)

I'm sure you've read Zeelot's recent thread regarding TMO's loot policy and you'll notice that it is a council-based system that keeps meticulous records for informational purposes (the records are never "binding" on the council's decisions but are considered highly persuasive). TMO's loot structure is meant to be a balance between the realistic needs of a raiding guild and individual achievement. Initially, we strongly favored mains over alts to the point of near absurdity, and we used to hold to the, very classicEQ, concept of handing out anything that dropped to someone at the raid if that main could use it no matter who they are. We have lost 3(4?) Donal's BP and other extremely valuable items to such a setup over time, and those losses are the origins of the DKP requirements to be awarded certain high-end items. The system ensures a high probability that the item will be used, long term, to help the guild while still rewarding individual efforts.

In classic EQ, the expansions came out fast enough so that you were almost always working on your main character, thus guilds tied benefits to characters and not players. On live, you were one of a small handfull of ultra-elite players if you had full "best in slot" gear at any time. P99 is unique in that the leveling up and "best in slot" progression is much faster here due to slower content releases, a VERY experienced player base, and account sales. For good or bad, those factors have caused a situation where it is more beneficial for both players and the guild to tie loot awards to players and not characters.

Consider a long-term member with over 1500 DKP (0.5 dkp / tracking hour & 1 dkp for each "boss kill"). This member has three level 60's one of which is a brand-new cleric that he just hit level 60 on. This member has an 80% attendance rate, and he has not received any loot since 2 months before the other player (below) joined the guild. There is a new member with 20% lifetime attendance and 50 DKP. A Donal's BP drops and only those two can use it. One is a "main" as and the other is an "alt" if you go by strict definitions. Who should get the BP in light of the above facts?

This situation is why TMO recognizes players and not characters when awarding loot. Otherwise, situations occur that will cause awards to "characters" by default due to their status as "mains," despite another "player" with an "alt" being far more "deserving" in the eyes of the guild's council. (Did I just use "too many" quotation marks?)

Ok, so the short story is that the guild has been burned, in your opinion, by persons who do not put in the kind of effort you'd like. So, as punishment to regular players who do put in a lot of time (just not as much as you'd like) and to further benefit those with so much time / plat that they have alts, you implemented a rule allowing them to get loot ahead of mains. It's a justification alright. I still don't agree. And trust me, I'm an educated individual and quite open. This still stinks of elitism and corrupt rules for those who lead the guild, which set a horrible precedent for the rest of the server. If the guild is so fabulously rich and ahead of the game then it stands to risk gear on potentially strong relationships with members. Regardless, the Officer Award method on it's own clearly states the intention to gear only those the leadership deems worthy. There are biases. There are prejudices. What you are doing is blinding yourself to it.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I addressed this subject fairly recently here:http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=105

But I'll say a few words here as a codicil as well. Every single dragon in VP still drops loot that is greatly desired by raiding TMO characters. These dragons are killed primarily for those items. The rotting loot is sold as an incidental benefit that would otherwise be "money left on the table."

Yes, it is commendable to announce rots as FFA at large, but not obligatory from any ethical standpoint. I agree that it would be in bad form to kill those mobs strictly for monetary benefit. Every single raid mob still killed today drops items of value. Even Vox drops the extremely desirable rez stick, and Nagafen drops prayers of life and bladestoppers all of which are given to mains upon dropping.

The fact that there is just one slightly needed item off of certain mobs is irrelevant. This is due to the fact that Zeelot has openly stated he makes sure loot doesn't rot because he sells it. It'd obvious this one one of the main reasons these mobs are killed. You're right, however, that it's not TMO's obligation to allow rots to simply given away. But the main issue actually lies in your own statement! That is you, and apparently the leadership, views rotting loot as "money left on the table". It's not. It's gear in a game. A free game, made for the enjoyment of many. Or is TMO and it's leadership so petty and conniving in it's attempt to stay on top by monopolizing everything that it can't remember that? It would be so easy for TMO to be significantly less monopolizing regarding this exact thing to accomplish.... what? Oh that's right, this brings me to the last point. -Engaging in the betterment of the server and the betterment of TMO's rep!

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I first started playing here, I remember seeing Nagafen spawned and downed in under 15 minutes flat. I didn't know who killed it, I'm not sure how they did it so fast, and I didn't know exactly why.

I hated them.

Honestly, I think I was jealous or perhaps simply being petty. I don't know. My point is that I had a completely irrational hatred for those mysterious people on top that I had never even met. It's perfectly natural to expect some dislike merely based upon that factor. Couple this with RnF and some... interesting personalities, and you'll have a recipe for a hate machine. Certainly, TMO could do more to improve its reputation, and there are many instances where both the guild as a whole and individual members do things that hurt the reputation. But these must all be considered holistically. What is earned versus what is simply assigned by human nature?

Only after I made a conscious decision to understand the motivations surrounding the endgame did I understand it, and I think that if you take the time to investigate it thoroughly you might have a finding or two that surprises you.

See, I don't hate TMO. I think they are run poorly, and the abscense of oversight has led it's leadership and to some degree the guild as a whole to think they can just do whatever the hell they want. In the end, I suppose they can. But those actions, if they negatively affect the server (which it appears they do) should go punished. They aren't by the guild's leadership. Some are even supported by the guild's leader! Thus, my original question in the title of this thread.