Quote:
Originally Posted by Danth
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Interesting info on the ships. I agree with that judgment call, all that work just to get the ugly erudin shuttle working in place of the correct ships probably isn't worth the opportunity cost.
I haven't really weighed in on my own opinion on the XP penalty, besides its nuisance factor (which, as noted, isn't correct and will likely go bye-bye thanks to this thread). As such, I'll do so now.
Pre-expansion, they don't hurt. I don't consider them necessary, but I don't consider them entirely out of place, either. Frankly, Paladins and SK's are superior to warriors in all situations outside main-tanking raid bosses when you have a Cheal chain running, and the hybrids aren't even much worse for THAT. Warriors were a pretty crummy class pre-expansion (and were even worse, initially, before they had things like berserker at low health). In addition, hybrids have a few bonuses here they lacked on Live, such as spellcasting not refreshing melee delay (which wasn't in until Velious).
With all that in mind, I can tolerate the penalty, and it wouldn't bother me at all if only my wife's Cleric didn't outlevel my Paladin so bad. You'll never see me say I like it, but it's tolerable in its current form, and will be moreso once group experience is properly allocated.
Once Kunark rolls around, and Warriors are relatively better thanks to things like /disc defensive, I'd re-evaluate the presence of those penalties. Verant did--just slowly (they remained in until Early Velious).
Danth
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If the exp penalty goes away for grouping, it will be as though there isn't one at all.
I know sk's can fear kite, and bards have been awesome soloers at certain times in game history. Rangers, in later eras of the game have been good soloers as well (though not so much in this era).
But most of your experience is going to come in groups. And if the penalty doesn't apply in groups, it is pretty much not going to be there at all.
But I think you might downrate warrior usefulness a little pre-kunark. And I might add, this particular debate is pretty much a warrior vs. sk/pal thing.
1) Are warriors on a different melee damage table than paladins/sk's right now?
2) How is 2h damage compared to dual wielding? In 1999 before the changes they made to 2h damage, it was pretty weak compared to dual wield. I guess they are using a later version of the game mechanics, so 2h damage should be much better helping the sk/pal, who can hold aggro with spells.
Most warriors are going to dual wield, for ... well let's not talk about aggro and weapons here. That has filled up uncounted threads over the years, let's just say they are going to dual wield except for certain situations and leave it at that.
But in 1999 warriors did about 20-30% more melee damage than a paladin or sk. There's not much to say about paladin damage, since the spells and aa/disciplines a paladin used for damage aren't here yet, and may never be.
The sk's are a little different. Theoretically they do more damage, but the taps are pretty useless till level 49. You get the heat blood line. The pet is a weak dot (that might actually work decently here right now). But the levels you get things, or even the effect is nerfed (vampiric embrace, the self lifetap proc for example) compared to necros.
In 1999 though a lot of sk's didnt' cast in combat because they lost damage (the spell cast/weapon swing thing you referred to), except to produce a specific effect like snaring. Or if it was on the death run, to tap a little health since it was going to die anyway, and you always had lots of mana.
3) Do Warriors get their "the most a mob can hit me for is one increment less than anyone else can be hit for" thing here? Big for raid mobs, not so much in xp groups though.
Maybe warriors (and rogues and monks) should be beefed up, not give an xp penalty to hybrids.
Though that is beyond the scope of this exercise I think.
But if the xp penalty in groups thing is taken away (which I think is a good idea), it's pretty much like not having one as it plays out right now.
But it's not justified either, except to make a niche for one class (warrior). And that only for 2 of the hybrid classes?