Quote:
Originally Posted by Aadill
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Yeah indoor mobs definitely have a different means to maintain agro, same as any mob that DTs would also require. The idea itself is very straightforward and simple and could very easily work. Perhaps some stipulations for things like CT need to be added so that you don't have one guild clear the zone for CT only to have another gank it. The golems rule might work here.
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They don't require different rules so much as different tactics. If the mob DTs, you better send two pullers so that one can complete the pull after the DT. Also, you better be prepared to put more bodies on it within 30 sec or so. Nothing about the rule needs to change to account for that. Guilds just have to employ different methods.
As for CT and planar clears... I am not totally opposed to making certain concessions to those that would add complexity to the rules for CT or zones with trash to be cleared, but I don't think it is needed. In my mind, the most likely outcome is that among the guilds that will be competing for CT, his last time of death will be at least roughly known by all parties, and so, with a variance timer that is under control, those guilds will have the plane cleared or nearly so by the time CT is spawning. However, that won't always be the case, so we should consider what the likely player behavior is under my rule if there is a full pop in PoFear.
As the zone is nearly clear, guilds will (or should) reposition themselves near CTs walking path. They will have long pulls back to their raid force. They should have their trackers monitoring how many mobs remain. When they are comfortable that they can handle CT (all trash cleared or not) then they can go for the pull. If another group is also their and they make the decision to go for the pull first, then either they get the kill or they wipe. Worst case is that they go for it too early and the summoned mobs kill part or all of another guilds' raid. Well, to me, that falls under training someone, and is ban worthy. Factor that into your decisions about when to attempt a pull. Don't pull what you can't handle. That works just like any xp zone. You are free to pull 10 mobs next to someone else and kill them... as long as you can kill the mobs. If you do that and die and end up wiping someone else... you are training them.
Killing through trash doesn't earn a guild anything but the xp and loot from from those corpses. I don't like leapfrogging, most people don't like it. I think if guild/raid leaders will spend more time sending each other tells, less of it will happen. If Guild X chooses to continue trying to leapfrog and can do it without training and violating the server rules, then they are welcome to do it. In my mind, the best consequence of that behavior is that no other guild will respect the Guild X's presence in a zone and will sometimes band together to leapfrog Guild X. If Guilds Y and Z see Guild X starting to clear FGs, they might rationally decide to punish Guild X by rolling right through them with sufficient numbers to bum rush Naggy and the last 3 FGs at the same time. If they can do that without training or violating first aggro + 15 min, then good for them. In the end though, and equilibrium should settle out where guilds stop trying to leapfrog because of the dangers or violating the training rules or the first aggro + 15 min rule.
No matter what we do, the raiding game is going to feel very tight until Kunark. It will still be tight in Kunark, but the raid targets will more than double. That will relive the pressure a measurable amount. There are just not that many targets relative to the number of people that want to raid them. That's fine though, the scarcity is part of what make the loot and the experience of the kill a valuable thing.
We collectively came up with a set of rules that kinda worked for awhile. Then people's behavior settled into it's most logical conclusion, camping. Now we're trying to come up with a different set of rules to keep people's behavior to certain standards while they compete. The more rules you lay down, the more opportunity there is for loopholes and unforeseen consequences. Keep it simple. Punish the douches who can't follow the rules. Make the punishment severe enough that people will want to follow the rules even when it means they will lose a chance at loot. The internal monologue of Guild X's raid leader or puller should look like this:
I could KS Maestro even though Guild Y got first aggro and I want his loot, but then again, I don't want half my guild banned for a month... I guess I'll let Guild Y continue with their attempt and hope they wipe
not this:
Damn, those newbs from Guild Y may have gotten the first aggro, but I have more DPS here, I'll throw the kitchen sink at Maestro fast and he will come to our raid. I'll tell Guild Y's puller he is a dumbfuck douche and my guild had the aggro all the time... worst case is they'll petition, but the guides won't do anything.