I guess the minimal raid force with minimal amount of key classes that is essentially a glorified pickup raid who have not raided together before killing raid mobs in a zone that no longer gives the ability to hide from significant area of effect damage is "screw it , here's your loot".
I guess we have to be trained by another guild for it to count as a challenge. In that case TMO has not had a challenge in months. Why don't you go up to vp after the ban and have you guys train each other all day.
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