Quote:
Originally Posted by greatdane
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But what gives you that impression? That's what I want to know. Those arguing for itemloot seem to think it's for the benefit of everyone. It's for the benefit of those who want itemloot, nobody is denying that, and there are certain merits to itemloot that you don't get without it. What you can't dismiss, however, is that there are similar and arguably more severe problems with itemloot than without it and, much more importantly, the majority is against it. How can you guys ignore that in every discussion? It is beyond me how you can deduce that itemloot will attract more players when you can plainly see that more are against it than for it. I'm not even talking about just the polls and threads in this forum, although that should be enough of an indication. I'm talking about history. VZTZ was more popular without itemloot than with it, and itemloot was removed from every live server that had it because it caused more problems than the benefits it offered. What is it about these facts that gives you the idea that itemloot will make the server more popular, not less popular? I really honestly would like to know. It's completely against the most fundamental logic of the discussion.
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The only certainty item loot dictates is that if you die in pvp, within whatever rules, you can possibly lose a piece of loot. Everything else proclaimed are assumptions based on your opinion. I do not personally think item loot would instantly garner more population, nor do I see that it would prevent it. That is not something you NOR I can claim with certainty.
As you use VZTZ for example, I will try to analogize p99. I was told, at length, how population would greatly suffer from no soulbinders, no translocators, nonclassic exp rates, and no boxing. I agree with that argument for about a month. At the end of that time (however long it may be before people kill the first bosses), the new server feel is gone, and people leave.. because its the same old thing. Do you think the same amount of people would play p99 if it still had all of these things? I would say no, because PEQ has them. I will say, if I was casting future predictions that item loot might even provide sustainability because it is DIFFERENT. It is classic, albeit not for all servers, and it is different than what is available elsewhere. But, that's a guess, and I don't predict the future in absolutes.
So, I see it as the same argument. You are trying play a numbers game with something that isn't as transparent as you may think. Time determines these things, and communities forge their own opinions. If you tried to argue for the inclusion of translocators, global ooc, and soulbinders, which would most definitely "help" population, I believe it would be shot down by the current community, where once it was the majority vote.
What I'm trying to say.. is you don't know what would hypothetically happen, nor do I. But I won't presume to speak for the population and accurately gauge numbers. That's a fallacy. You mentioned live pvp servers as well as vztz. Where are those servers now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk
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Haven't seen one significant VZ/TZer support item loot, but keep tellen yourself these random board warriors that say I remember RZ 12 years ago and Item loot was great are good at pvp. I'll enjoy the bath of tears from people if you go with it, while playing my mage.
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Bolded your only apparent experience with EQ. If you do have real arguments, I have yet to see them. I'd like to know your entire history of eq playing and age.
tldr : Make up your own mind. Don't listen to me or anyone else.