[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You retort that we are not as ambitious as you and you may be right. What the Devs/Guides make guilds do requires a lot of extra work that shouldn't be necessary to hit raid targets, at least in my opinion.

In a sense, yes. In fact, the term "work" should be replaced with "devotion," as work has been used by many people to exclaim that no one else is wanting to "work" to get a single target mob. If you replace that word with devotion, I do believe that is true.

However, I do believe it is unnecessary to start a rotation or completely remove variance. I have found much dislike for the ideas of rotation with a convoluted set of rules because it no longer delineates one guild from the next. It creates a situation in which all identity is lost except by the string of letters next to your name (and even then they lose all meaning unless you're attached to the name e.g. Fires of Heaven, Transcendence (Transcendence Gaming deals in multiple games), etc.).

Instancing was EQLive's solution to complaints about competition because all rotations were player-made and not GM-enforced. When I went back to live for a brief stint I joined my old guild but found myself uninterested in making sure that I stood in x spot so i didn't wipe the guild versus what we have here which is racing to the target (whether it's actual racing across zones or just logging in) and being ready to go and not stand in x spot which would wipe the guild and basically hand the mob to the other guild(s) present. At that point I realized then that I didn't really care for my old guild despite having my beginnings there. They were like any other group of people that logged into Everquest: PlayerA is PlayerB is PlayerC. My return to the game added a PlayerD. Raiding was incredibly boring.

Here, however, there is an element of surprise and more danger than just needing to get a rez and trying again. Wiping here means that you probably lost the mob, not just time because you had to rez. There's no instancing, no rotations on mobs giving free chances at loot without some sort of danger.

I do understand that even in a rotation system the idea of handing off a mob to the next guild in the rotation if a guild wipes has been presented. In my opinion that can look great on paper but not really mean much in game. The lack of a pressure-inducing time constraint allows too lax of a raiding atmosphere and consequently no shifting of ownership of mobs. Whether or not this is true is mostly unfounded, but obviously multiple guilds are getting kills on patch days. This leads me to the notion that even in a rotation where you introduce some danger of losing a mob, it's never going to happen without some sort of pressure and consequent adaptation to said pressure. That adaptation is what creates a guild identity and makes the raiders of that guild fit in with that identity.

Without some sort of identifier I don't really care who is in TMO, TR, Vesica Dei, Divinity, Transcendence, Taken, BDA, or any other guild. All of these guilds consider themselves raid guilds and each has their own identity and style when it comes to raiding.

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no first-15-on-island rule for noble dojorn. Guess what happened? For a few spawns there were 3-5 guilds "poopsocking" noble's spawnpoint because everyone knew he was going to spawn. Guess what happened each time? All guilds engaged, dojorn was down within seconds and nobody had a clue who engaged first. Besides that it makes the encounter trivial it does need GM intervention each time, and its not the least fun. So the GMs decided to make a rule so whoever gets first 15 on dojorns island would get the kill, cause there was NO WAY the fix spawn timer was going to work.

If I remember correctly, the rule originally didn't apply because it was a non-agro mob. Even with the 15 man claim before the rule was applied, the mob was still attacked by everyone
because it was explained that it was always fair game. What's important though is what you outlined: the spawn timer was known and everyone gunned for it.

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but still raiding would be no more fun at all, when it only comes down to who of the 100 people around the mob get the first hit? How much fun is that? Welcome to p99, where luck decides who gets the kill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would prevent instances in which already engaged mobs aren't tagged by players of opposing guilds. KSing entities could then easily be banned because they'd have no reason to continue attacking if they knew who attacked first.