[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some stuff and a lot of snark - I read it 3x to make sure I wasn't missing something important

Unfortunately, this does indeed seem to be the case:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heaven help you if you cannot follow the logic train here - failure to understand this concept would be imply you are actually beyond hope.

Which is not surprising as napkin math has led him to really obtuse faulty conclusions in the past in using a specific data set obtained under specific circumstances and then trying to use a broad paintbrush to color the entire world around him:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But when napkin math is used improperly you're going to get stupid irrelevant results. This was the problem with you using napkin math of you soloing a damn level 40 frog in seb. You solo'd a level 40 frog in seb using dots. You did actually do that amount of dps to that mob between you and your pet. That was fact. You had the logs. You had the videos. YOU DID A THING. You and your pet did enough damage in a unit of time that you knew you had done XYZ dps. You then said "hey shamans can be expected to do XYZ dps all the time and in all circumstances" ... and we were like ... 'uh no, that's not how it works'. The conversation was regarding who was going to be the best 4th in a group that already had a cleric and 2 charming enchanters. Mobs would be dying quickly. Those spells aren't exactly quick to cast and you were not actually going to average the same thing in a fast 20 second or less fight that you had the luxury of doing when it was just you (and only you and your pet) with the full hp bar of the mob to play with. Necromancers feel this pain as well. Dots in this era are just not very cool for xp groups where mobs die pretty quickly.

Unfortunately, it seems that instead of trying to have that big boy 'big brain' talk, DSM is more interested in trying to look good in front of some imaginary audience. There is no silent majority not participating. Everyone that is reading is participating.
We see what we have always seen ... a closed mind.

Snaggles flat out told you:

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A level 5 to a level 52 is not a valid parse target. I’ve spent an hour or so messing with bloodmaw who’s level 20 vs my 60 ranger. Aside from calculating an exact DW swing chance all that data was garbage. Two epics parsed very close to ntov weapons. In reality they aren’t in the same zip code.

A level 52 parse offers no usable data save for people trying to optimize a Vox/Naggy alt.

You got another person ... who isn't Troxx ... telling you flat out how you can't use mobs like Corudoth or Bloodmaw to get an accurate picture.
Data/numbers given. (not by Troxx)
Experiences/data/numbers ignored. (not from Troxx)

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will say, nobody thinks fist/SoS is viable in 2024 for good reason. It has not surprised a raid meter…ever. Where as among normal mortals a kunark staff 60 monk has, especially for a tryhard with a timed left mouse-click.

Since the 2h patch when live, my monk is in garbage gear with 22% worn haste and has BEEN that level 60 monk AT that raid who surprised the raid meter by over-performing expectations.

Oh well. Back to post 393:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We have reached an impasse. I don’t think anything new is going to be said at this point, nor do I think DSM will consider putting in just a little bit more effort.

Summary: dual wielding is just as potent as it has ever been but 2handers now hold several advantages. Regarding dmg output, cheap EC tradable weapons end up completely eclipsing all comparable and content-similar/appropriate dual wield setups the closer you get to 60. By the time you hit 60, you really don’t have any upgrades available other than some VP drops or endgame velious weapons and tier for tier the 2handers will put out more damage. Prior to your mid-50s certain attainable dual wield setups may or may not perform similarly, but insufficient data was provided for certainty (head nod to DSM). Regardless, there is a tradeoff for fast weapons: ripostes and dmg shields.

The simplest path:
-get your epic (you will want it for all the other reasons)
-buy an IFS, PB or TStaff (if you can afford it)
-forget about anything else until or unless you are raiding endgame.

That is really it in a nut shell.

Can we be done or do we need to keep this going a few more hundred pages?

2 years ago I might have gotten my hopes up. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) some things never change. We are at the literal definition of an impasse. Nadda is going to change other than the number of pages in this thread.

Sorry guys. I tried.