[Troxx]

Page 288-289 … I had completely forgotten about this! One of the funnier tangents that actually did change the direction of discussion

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, I may even take a druid over a shaman for 1-60 leveling in that enc / enc / cleric / XXX 4 man. If you did Warrens --> Perma --> CT --> Kedge --> Chardok you could always have an animal to charm, and this is also an insanely high ZEM pathway. Certainly not as good as mage / necro, but hell...it really isn't that far behind either.

Plenty of other dungeon options with animals too...plus the luxury of porting around...especially nice for an all caster group that needs to go get their spells!

Can't wait to watch DSM go through the roof when he reads this hot take.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then you wouldn't have a very useful class at 60. A lot of combinations work well in the leveling process, but then you have a 60 druid that isn't offering as much as another class.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Case could be made it’s about as useful at 60 as a shaman in this theoretical group. POTG, free clicky group regen, ports/evacs and some half decent druid nukes and DS vs a whopping 55dps with of shaman.

Maybe tox has a point?!

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Ok DSM we have established shamans are less than half as good as a mage. I now vote we redirect this discussion.

DSM now you gotta make the case why 55 dps worth of shaman is so much better than all the extra stacking utility Druids have compared to shamans in this theoretical group makeup!

….. and go!

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't read the data, which is why you are sticking to the lowest DPS number possible. You are basically saying Mage DPS is bad because you won't let the Mage use their pet. Great argument.

55 DPS is assuming you aren't letting your Shaman root/rot in a group chain pulling easy mobs. Again, that is like telling the Mage they can't use their pet. Nobody cares that you don't like root/rotting in a group.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM now realizing that in using his own backwards logic (dps is irrelevant since you already hit your soft cap) he now realizes he has to compete with Druids for a spot.

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-1-59 druid might just be flat out better everywhere. If you have animals to charm it’s no contest.
-at 60 the shaman is only 55 dps. Druid isn’t far behind that but has actual utility that isn’t redundant unlike the shaman.

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Ok DSM. Make your case. We will be the judge and jury. Why is a shaman better than a druid?

…. and go!

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I made the druid argument earlier in this thread somewhere. Don't care to dig for it. Druid is a WAY better option than shaman if animals are available to charm. It's not even a contest in a zone like Chardok. Likely better even without charm. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that "safety" is needed beyond 2 encs and a cleric. Druid direct healing is as good/better? Torpor isn't an emergency heal for when shit hits the fan. Druid also has the option of evac. Their utility has less overlap with the existing group and their buffs are better for casters than shaman buffs. I said this before somewhere but the only caster/priest class that is potentially WORSE for this group is Wizard. I honestly think literally every other caster/priest would be preferable to shaman for this specific group makeup.

This thread is so much more interesting when you glaze over the hundreds of “you … no you … no I said you … but I you …. But YOU YOU … no you you’d me!” posts and just skip to the quick bursts of interesting back and forths.