Quote:
Originally Posted by Duik
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Hands up who is lvl 60 and has torpor that wants to test this theory?
Desperately Slandering Mages is not included in this. No group would last long enough to prove it eithwr way.
At 60 you are not xping unless you take a few deaths. So none of the lvl60 sham with torpor are even gonna wanna do this.
This is/was for xp groups, not lvl 60's with full spell books parallel playing like you are extolling the virtue of.
Ok we get it, a sham wiff all spells and torpor can do wonderful stuff. A necro at all lvl stages can do virrually ALL the same things with slight mana efficiency differences. (As they can at other lvls. Better lich better taps etc)
Lvl 60 necro gets a better lich and another undead charm?
Lvl60 shm gets (a chance at) torpor, the class defining spell. Before then they just a 5th wheel that can do a few things (that other classes also do) acceptably.
A sub60 or torporless 60 sham is just an inefficient cleric, a fat non charming chanter or a low dps malo mage replacement.
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I agree that level 60's generally aren't farming trash mobs. Realistically you don't need the extra DPS from a Mage when killing named mobs, the mobs are going to die quickly anyway. You won't save enough time per kill to get another kill in a singe session either.
The topic usually gets changed to killing trash mobs as a deflection tactic from people trying to claim Mages are going to offer something significant to the group in the endgame. This is because they cannot counter the point above. Torpor Shamans offer much more to an endgame group than Mages.
The point of leveling is to get to 60 and farm endgame content. If your group only gets to level 40 and stops playing, group composition is honestly irrelevant. Just about any 4 player group is going to destroy all level 1-39 mobs, because they are already very easy. This is why you can level up a twinked monk from level 30-40 in like 10 hours or less. You could probably get to level 40 quickly with 4 rogues. Just have a lot of bandages and switch who is tanking after each kill.
If you actually care about your group composition, then you are probably planning on getting to 60. A Shaman is a much better long term investment for the group and the individual player than a Mage. A four man group is going to reach 60 quickly anyway, whether you take the Shaman or the Mage.
EDIT: Enchanters need expensive spells as well, this isn't exclusive to Shamans. If your group can pool their resources to afford 3 copies of all the expensive Enchanter spells in a Ench/Ench/Ench/Cleric group, they could buy Torpor for the Shaman. Spell cost isn't a very good argument when you are using Enchanters as a class.