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Originally Posted by bcbrown
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Thank you, this is convincing. I'd love to see someone else who favors putting points into strength to come up with a Magelo with similar gear levels.
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You're welcome! I would like to see that too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbrown
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This is something on which I don't think we will ever see eye to eye. Of course, the mechanics affected by the different attributes are deterministic, implemented through mathematical formulae. But value is subjective. Doesn't your shaman race guide essentially say "Iksar is best for raiding, Troll is best for leveling, Ogre is best if you primarily care about post-Torpor gameplay"?
You're setting different bars for strength and int here. You say int "will help", but that 200+ str is "not neccesary", and 20 str is "not significant". 20 str will help. You haven't shown that 20int is "a significant boon".
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I do indeed provide the best situation for each race. There are players who are looking to do something very specific, and they should know if a racial choice will help them out more in that scenario.
I still clearly state that Ogre is the best overall choice for the vast majority of Shamans. Torpor is the best feature of a Shaman, and the goal all Shaman players should be aiming for. FSI works best with Torpor, which means Ogre is overall the best choice. As I state in my guide, if you are 100% convinced you will never reach level 60, Troll is the better racial choice.
However, there are a lot of level 60 Shamans online when you /w all 60 Shaman. If you have been on the server for a number of years, you would notice how popular max level Shamans are. I don't think it is a wise idea to assume you will never hit 60 (and thus use that assumption to dictate your starting race/stats). There are plenty of stories of people who pick up characters they put down at level 40, and bring them up the rest of the way to 60.
The same logic applies to dumping points into STR as your starting stats. I am not saying STR will do nothing. I also mention that STR is a good choice on a self found character, or if it is your first character on a new server. This tends to be the less common scenario, however, due to both servers being at the end of Velious. As far as I know, OP is willing to twink his character, which is the common choice.
For a twinked character, STR is simply not going to be very noticeable, contrary to what everybody has been saying. I have provided evidence for this here
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=105 and
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=138 here. STA and INT will not be very noticeable either, but you will get benefits from them longer than STR, because STR is simply way easier to cap with gear and buffs. With Focus of Spirit and Maniacal Strength you only need 120ish total STR to cap out at 255. With only Maniacal Strength (if you are grouping with a sub 60 Shaman), you only need 187 total STR. As you can see, the Magelo I provided
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK is already quite close to that number. I've done a lot of soloing over the years, and I can say that a bit of extra STR has not provided me with a significant increase in my kills per hour.
There needs to be a commonly accepted definition for what the "best" is when dealing with these kinds of questions. Otherwise there can never be consensus on any topic, because you can always find a situation in which something is the "best". Putting all your starting stats into AGI will make you the best "avoidance tank", but unfortunately the benefit from that is so small, that nobody would try and argue that it is the overall "best" choice.
The commonly accepted definition for what the "best" is should be the choice that benefits the most players, regardless of their intentions when playing the game. This advise will serve the most people. If someone is an advanced player, and looking for something more specific, a more technical discussion can be had. If someone wants to make a Magelo Shaman, who's primary purpose is to be a DKP dump for their thousands of unspent DKP, Iksar is the best choice for that. Most players don't have the luxury of having too much DKP to spend, however, so I wouldn't give this advise normally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbrown
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I am entirely uninterested in engaging with insults and trolling. Notice that you're the only person I've engaged with in this thread. Yes, I may ignore trolls and insults, but it's not because I'm giving them a pass; it's because I don't think I'll get any sort of a constructive outcome from engaging with that sort of behavior. Maybe you think I'm picking on you, but I'd prefer you take it as a compliment that I think you're worth the effort of talking to you.
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I appreciate you have made your intentions clear, and have denounced the trolls. Thank you for that, and I apologize if I insulted you.