[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...ID=46680#47516

Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
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Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 5:15 PM
The devs have said that they did not code specific effects as bard effects for purposes of hate generation. ALL effects cast by a bard, song, proc, right-click or whatever

have reduced agro simply because of the class we are -- this was the easy way to code it and it is no surprise Sony took that way out. I think this came up about two or

three Fan Faires ago when a dev admitted they took the easy way out on bard agro coding.
Steppy Astravox
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lanolar is not online. Last active: 12/24/2004 10:03:03 AM lanolar
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Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 7:01 PM
Hmm I remember the exact opposite at the fan fair. Bard songs have reduced agro. If its not coded to be a song, it has normal agro.
Lanolar
Crimson Tempest

Astuce999 is not online. Last active: 1/12/2005 7:18:42 PM Astuce999
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Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 18 04 5:19 AM

BoC works for bards. It gives 700 hate.

Hooked So`Shar works for bards. It gives 250 hate.

I am not aware of any other weapon with a direct hate proc
that can be weilded by bards.

The confusion with bard code and aggro will not die tomorrow.

There are 2 kinds of hate. Direct and indirect.

Direct hate comes in 2 forms; damage (whether you hurting it
or you healing someone it has aggro on), and procs/discs/etc
that add directly to hate.

Indirect hate is basically everything else that people do during
a fight that mobs will notice. So slows, stuns, snares, mez'es,
charms, fear, debuffs, hastes, buffs, etc.

Bards are coded so that anything that creates indirect hate
will only give a fraction of that indirect hate when it is
associated with a bard.

So my slow is only a fraction of the aggro a shaman slow is.

So my snare is only a fraction of the aggro a druid snare is.

So my mez is only a fraction of the aggro an enchanter mez is.

So my stun is only a fraction of the aggro a paladin stun is.

This includes spells, procs, potions, and items.

When it comes to direct hate, we're on the same code as all
the other classes. The problem comes with the fact that it is
fairly difficult for us to have access to that direct hate. We
do not possess any ability that adds directly to hate without
dealing damage, barring the two aforementioned weapons, and
even then, we can't use those to build hate on a mez'ed mob
so that when it's woken up it won't eat the chanter. Let's
just say that it's not our melee dps that will keep us on top of
the hate list either, nor our healing prowess.

The reason people mention chant dots as a solution to hold
aggro is a bit more subtle than I'm sure most of them realize.
Furthermore, the advantage to clicking in a drum to receive
the full modified effect of the chant in the middle of a melee
swing helps to increase the hate twofold as explained below.

A chant dot has 2 components. One is damage (direct hate),
and the other is a debuff component (indirect hate). So even
though it is not the highest dps in the game, it will outaggro
other people with the same or greater dps because of the
indirect hate from the debuff.

Hope this clears it up for you,

'Stuce
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Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
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Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 18 04 10:48 AM
Astuce - excellent explanation! That really illustrates things better and I appreciate you taking the time to write it out. So I was correctly remembering the stuff about even procs being coded differently when a bard does it, but the direct vs. indirect hate throws another dimension onto it that makes a lot of sense.
Steppy Astravox
Code of Silence
Luclin Server

lanolar is not online. Last active: 12/24/2004 10:03:03 AM lanolar
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Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 19 04 12:38 AM
Aye thanks for posting that good explanation. I was remembering them saying hate procs work the same for us.
Lanolar
Crimson Tempest

Additional comments that suggest LDoN was the expansion that reduced bard aggro...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...x?PostID=40355

cujomatic is not online. Last active: 1/11/2005 6:13:25 PM cujomatic
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Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 17 04 6:11 PM
You are gonna start that "should bards tank" argument again, I know it.

What level?

As far as I know, the only close to 'snap' aggro grabbers we have are sit and charm. An sit can be iffy, charm is limited or unavailable for some levels. Everything else will

not grab aggro for you from someone that has hard aggro. You need to build aggro over time with a planned twist.

If you have time to build agro through a four or six song twist prior to casters/ melee engaging, then 4 dots, 3 dots plus asnare/slow. Shield of songs will get you aggro, but

usually when you don't want it. It can't reliably grab aggro, in my experience. But its usfull in a slow build as well.

When I two box a bard/cleric...I use chant/slow and ae's if appropriate and charm to build aggro before the cleric heals/nukes/stuns.

This was discussed in some depth 6 months or so ago, but I don't know if the thread survived the move.

Mez and close distance with melee and chant/slow twist will sometimes grab aggro if the old aggro hold moves off really quickly.

Bottom line is most bard songs are coded for low aggro...thats not gonna help you when you want it.

Eladuel is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 1:51:19 PM Eladuel
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Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 18 04 1:36 AM
Bards have a wierd code where the things we do cause agro just at a reduced rate, I figure it was to fix the problems with bards dying to fast when twisting. The problem

with this is it also affects our procs so weopons that proc stun and slow won't be nearly effective if another class were using. Other then using the generic chants, charms,

and sitting which will create a bit of agro not sure if it will be enough to say keep a BoT giant on you when a healer is ch'ing the only other path I know of is to get a

weopon that procs a set ammount of hate like enraging blow aka BoC... so start saving your pennies or find a guild who is still willing to do AoW for a bard LOL

alerka is not online. Last active: 7/20/2004 4:58:10 AM alerka
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Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 20 04 9:28 PM
The "Katta's Song of Sword Dancing" or whatever its called gives you a proc and increases your chances to proc. From what I know procs are one of the biggest aggros.

Returning to the first comment at the top...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...ID=46680#47516

Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
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Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Total Posts: 1682

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 5:15 PM
The devs have said that they did not code specific effects as bard effects for purposes of hate generation. ALL effects cast by a bard, song, proc, right-click or whatever

have reduced agro simply because of the class we are -- this was the easy way to code it and it is no surprise Sony took that way out. I think this came up about two or

three Fan Faires ago when a dev admitted they took the easy way out on bard agro coding.
Steppy Astravox
Code of Silence
Luclin Server

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/soe_fan_faire

2004
New Orleans Louisiana, October 27-30, 2004

2003
Chicago Illinois, September 26-28, 2003
Las Vegas Nevada, March 28-30, 2003

2002
San Francisco California, November 8-9, 2002
Boston Massachusetts, August 2-3, 2002
Seattle Washington, April 19-20, 2002
Dallas Texas, January 25-26, 2002

https://web.archive.org/web/20030108...rder=0&thold=0

Fan Faire discussion (Nov 8-9)
Posted by Bicrius | on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:03 PM
EverQuest Event
It's less than one month until the next Fan Faire, which is being held in San Francisco. Find out who's going and discuss plans! The thread is here. Let's continue Luclin's good record for attendance and excessive drinking at the Fan Faires. ^_^

https://web.archive.org/web/20021211...aire/index.jsp

The 2002 EverQuest San Francisco Fan Faire was held on November 8-9 at the Sony Metreon and the San Francisco Marriott. Check out an attendee’s diary with photos, plus a cool movie from this exciting event

No transcripts appear to be available and so far the only video recordings of SOE Fan Faires from around that time were held in Orlando and Vegas, the latter of which might have been the one referred to by the poster.