Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede
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Why can't you imagine people are going for this leveling/farming path? People will generally find the path of least resistance in this game. What's going to get you the quickest xp possible(we aren't all teenagers anymore who can play for hours on end), and what will get you the best pp gains. A mage doing droga can out farm a lot of these weaker classes per hour(ranger, paladin, wizard). You might get bored of doing it, but that doesn't necessarily make them a weak class.
This thread was about the most underPOWERed class. What a mage can do, they do it extremely well, and they are very powerful at doing it. You're pretty much equating utility to power, which I don't really see going back to point about rangers. They have a lot of utility but I don't think anyone really considers them powerful, and they are very limited in what they can actually take head on. While a wizard might be able get around easier with root/IVU & maybe nuke down a random mob or 2 that a mage can't get to as easily, that doesn't make them powerful, because now the wizard has to sit for 20+ min to get that mana back, lol.
It is not hard to determine at which points in the game soloing is more optimal than groups. I've leveled many, many alts on this server, and I've explored tons of different leveling paths. Solo is almost always more optimal than grouping if the class can do it efficiently, like a mage, and you know where to hunt and what mobs to kill. Duos/trios can help speed things up in certain situations 55+, but rogues are really not great at doing this. I consider a rogue more of a 4-6 man group class, where xp per hour starts to take a significant dive.
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I can imagine it
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The question of "most underpowered in general" breaks down if you allow all paths, because no one is going to generate that much data. There are too many assumptions about which path you can take and at what point. There is almost certainly a leveling path where a Ranger would outperform a Mage, for example. In that particular case, Ranger would be better than Mage. You would basically need to figure out all paths and see which classes get the most and best paths to determine an objective best and worst. Nobody is going to do that.
So you have to look at what each class can do, and what people end up using them for. Mages can solo and group well, and they are highly prized in raids. But remember that most Mages level to 55 and then just become a CoTH bot, where most Rogues level to 60 and play outside of Raids. This is one clear indicator of why Mages are low on the Totem pole. They have one good thing people care about, but their other abilities aren't special enough for people to care about them. That is why Rogues are better than Mages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuranthium
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Mage is the #1 DPS in the game for classic group composition (no Charming, no Velious endgame weapons). Especially before Level 55 and pre-Epic, Mage beats Rogue by a lot. The pet alone is more DPS at that gear level, and then you add in their damage shield and nukes on top of it.
Mages are great at soloing, the comparison to Rogue there is very nonsensical. Not having traditional CC on Mage can definitely be very annoying, but for grouping someone else will have Root anyway, and for soloing you just have to plan properly. Your pet is the CC, you can break many camps solo by chain petting. After broken the Water Pet has crazy regen, allowing you to maximize your DPS by not having to keep casting new pets and instead use the mana on damage spells. In the period of the game before melee gear gets really good, a Mage on their own could grind through more MOBs than a trio of Warrior + Cleric + Wizard. The pet is better DPS than a Warrior and its regen is like having a dedicated healer already, and Mage damage shield + nuke together is more efficient than Wizard nuke.
This is NOT true, lol. Although it depends on exact era and context. The hybrids improve a lot in Velious. And in general SK can get to some camps faster because of Feign Death. But for actual ability to kill the most stuff solo, Mage beats all of those classes. By a lot. Paladin especially is very slow to kill stuff solo. Yikes!
I remember soloing places like Mistmoore graveyard as a Mage, while whole groups sat by, mad that I was able to take it all on my own. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] |
I don't doubt Mages are best DPS in classic. But with this kind of question I assume Velious, because that is where this server always ends. OP did not ask "most underpowered in classic".
You misunderstood my point about Rogues. I am not saying Rogues and Mages are equal or comparable to soloing. I never said that. I am saying Mages aren't as good at soloing as other classes due to their lack of CC, which is true. Rogues are mostly group classes, so you weigh soloing lightly on them. Mages can solo better, so you weigh soloing more when considering most underpowered.
And I think SK's, Paladins, Rangers, Druids, and Wizards are better than Mages at soloing because they can do more camps via utility. Who cares how good a Mage can be at specific camps if you can't get into them, for example? Having a larger pool of camps to choose from allows more consistency when leveling. This is again assuming Velious, because that is where this server always ends.
I also would love to see video proof of your claim that a single mage could out grind a Warrior + Cleric + Wizard. I don't think this is true. And even if it was true in Classic, lets say, that is irrelevant to the question, because the question isn't "most underpowered in classic".