[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/Thread

You refuse to provide any evidence for your primary thesis, which is 25 STA > 25 WIS for 95% of Shaman's life. This means you just have an opinion. It is fine to have an opinion, but it isn't based on any facts within the game, so please do not assert it as such.

You also still have not defined "95% of a "Shaman's life", because I don't know what "gotten them everything" actually means. There are multiple gear combinations one player could consider "everything".

Until you define "95% of a "Shaman's life", you can't assert your opinion as anything other than an opinion.

Actually, that just seems to be a difference between us: I'm fine with making points (like that most of the time in EQ is spent on the journey, not the destination), and leaving it up to an intelligent reader to decide for themselves whether what I'm saying makes sense to them or not.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have conceded my other points:

1. WIS is harder to cap during the Velious era than STA generally speaking.

I'll happily concede as much (while pointing out that it's irrelevant, since again no one will hit either cap for 95+% of their life). But I don't agree that:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the best starting stat is the primary stat that is hardest to cap, because a capped stat isn't helping you.

You've gone from objective truth to subjective statement in one sentence. Why would someone base a decision on what will affect them < 5% of the time, when they could base it on what will affect them 95+% of the time?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only reason

Once again, whenever you start declaring "the only ___ is whatever my opinion is" ... I just stop reading.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Starting stats will NOT really help you during the leveling process, because stats scale by level.

Gee, I feel like other people in this thread have also pointed out that starting stats don't matter, and someone argued with them that they do matter ... who could that have been ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok. If you're nauseated, stop reading and making pointless posts. OP is asking a question about starting stats, he isn't asking about how much you personally care about starting stats.

The funny thing is if you think gear is important, you think stats are important hehe. 25 points into WIS/STA is a lot gear-wise. That on average is at least 3 pieces of gear's worth, assuming it has a higher than average WIS/STA of 8+.

Regardless of what either poster said, we all agree (at least some of the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) that starting stats are inconsequential ... and yet we (yourself included) have spent over 25 pages debating which one is less inconsequential.

I still maintain HP is, and saying "but stats are largely meaningless" won't change that.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. 25 STA gives you 75HP at level 60. It gives you something like 30 HP at level 30. Neither 75HP nor 30HP will save your life a significant amount of times.

Again, stats largely don't matter ... but no matter how many times you repeat this line of reasoning, it won't change the fact that Mana will save your life less than HP does.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5. Shamans can in fact run out of mana before dying

Yes, they can. But as I keep asking, when you were leveling how many times did you start at full mana (maximums are irrelevant if you aren't using them), burn through all of your mana, and then die at the end for lack of mana?

Conversely, how many times did you start at full HP, but die for lack of HP? I'm 100% ok with letting an intelligent reader ask themselves these questions, and decide for themselves which stat will save their life more often; no further "evidence" is required.

And also, again, your video of a single fight, at 60, with Torpor, with good gear, is no evidence of anything ... but it's especially not evidence of what it's like for the 95+% of the time before you have all that.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have no evidence to assert this claim, and I have a video where the +25 WIS helped me survive. This is where you need to actually define what "95% of a "Shaman's life" is, so we can see when the STA might be better than WIS.

Again, we don't have to keep talking: there's no reason for you to just keep repeating the same thing over and over. I'm 100% ok with whoever reads this judging the logical arguments I've made, and the "evidence" I've provided (thought experiments like the above, my Magelo, etc.) against your video.

If you feel you've made a strong case, and you feel your video is strong evidence, let's just stop posting here.