[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have factually disproven this, please stop saying it. You can cap STA in your 40s with 20k plat or less. Or provide a Magelo for what you think 95% of a Shaman's life is.

Again, DeathsSilkyMist thinks that because he declares something to be a fact, it is [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meanwhile, as I keep repeating, we both agree that if you focus on Stamina, you can cap Stamina [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if you try instead to have a good Shaman, one with an instant-click item, a regen item, AC, raw HP, an epic, a JBB, resists, and so on, it's nearly impossible to max Stamina without good (ie. end of game) gear.

So providing a pre-60 Magelo would be pointless: I already provided Loramin, who has far better gear, and yet (even if you fix his starting stats to have +25 Stamina instead) hasn't hit the Stamina cap. What would showing a worse-geared Shaman demonstrate?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you keep missing all the points. If a Shaman will reduce their max HP by 35 or more via Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring and not notice a difference, they will not notice a missing 75HP. You don't understand when max HP actually matters.

The only point you've made is that the earring is better than HP ... and we both agree on that!

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Magelo I posted is not designed to show an optimal Shaman build, it is to show you that a poor Shaman who is a casual player can max STA with little investment.

Again, we both agree they can ... but I disagree that they'd want to. A Shaman is going to want other things (the list I keep repeating over and over) besides Stamina, whatever level they are.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't have it both ways: You can't claim that 95% of a Shaman's career won't cap STA because they are not twinked, are too casual, etc., and then turn around and say most Shamans can easily afford Fungi Tunic. YOU NEED TO DEFINE WHAT 95% OF A SHAMAN'S LIFE LOOKS LIKE. Otherwise it is just some nebulous term you are throwing around because it can't be disproven.

You're making a false dichotomy (more dishonest arguing). It's not like the only options are "end game gear" and "use every slot to max your Stamina gear", but you're dishonestly trying to make it sound like there is.

Again, most Shaman will want:

an instant-click item, a regen item, AC, raw HP, an epic, a JBB, resists, and so on

All you need to do to prove your point is show a Magelo that has all those things, but also hits the Stamina cap, without using end-game gear. If your argument is so solid it should be trivial to provide that Magelo: just take Loramin's or one of these all-Stamina Magelos and tweak them a little ... but I don't think you can, because a realistic Shaman will not hit stat caps without end game gear.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you think anecdotes and poorly constructed logic are rebuttals. I have actual evidence, you do not.

Your "evidence" so far is a video of a fight at the end game, which disproves nothing about the 95% of the Shaman's life leading up to that end game (and neither proves nor disproves anything about being 60 with Torpor/good gear either).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please concede or provide additional evidence.

Of what? You have to make a claim for me to dispute it, and I have disputed all your claims I care to. Like I keep saying, don't just say (as you essentially are) "you're wrong"; argue against a point I've made. For instance:

• I believe realistic/actual Shaman below 60 will hit the stat cap because ____
• I believe Mana will save a Shaman's life before 60 more than HP will because ____
• I believe that once a Shaman has gotten 60, and Torpor, and good enough gear to max stats, they will spend more than 5% of their total playtime playing that character because _____

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You somehow believe being an armchair general when it comes to fighting something like a WW dragon is good enough. When you are in a fight like that, you are making quick decisions based on how the fight is going. Claiming that "you could have theoretically did your spells more optimally" doesn't really help your argument that 75HP is better, because I could make that same argument in a way that makes mana seem better. Since both arguments are theoretical, it is hard to determine which one is correct without practical application.

Great, so you understand why your video didn't prove anything: it's completely arbrirtary how many times you chose to Cannabalize or Torpor during that more-than-15-minute fight, and yet a slight change in your behavior would have resulted in a vastly different amount of HP/Mana at the end of the fight. We're finally on the same page ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is why video evidence is great, because you can see how a fight happens in a practical scenario, rather than an armchair general scenario.

/facepalm

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Going to repost this part because I believe it is the crux of our disagreement. I am concerned you will get too distracted on the other points, and misread them, creating further problems.

Basically you need to define what "95% of a Shaman's life" actually looks like. Otherwise that is basically your version of "I am right and you are wrong", which obviously can't be disproven, and we are at an impasse.

So you get to just ignore giant posts of rebuttals I make to you, but then you can cherry-pick your favorite argument out of context? More dishonest debating, but again, I'm game!

However, I don't agre with yet another of your "declarations", that I need to define anything. I'm perfectly happy with whoever reads this imagining for themselves how much of a Shaman's life is spent leveling up (a whole hell of a lot), how much is spent getting Torpor (a lot), how much is acquiring end-game gear that will make them hit stat caps (a lot more) ... and how much time the Shaman will get played once they finally have everything or nearly everything they could possibly want.

To me it's self-evident that 95+% is the journey, and only 5% is playing your character once you've gotten them everything; I feel that point stands without any further evidence.