[loramin]

Originally Posted by whydothis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say this but you have no evidence of the actual charming rates back then. There are in era guides where people talk about charming pets for various encounters. Do you have proof of enchanters in 99-01 saying how they never charm? Or how rarely they do it?

You want to make it riskier? How exactly? And to what end - until you feel it's ok? There's no way to change it and be sure it's accurate. If there's no explicit evidence of charming working differently than what we have then this doesn't even deserve discussion.

The whole problem with recreating classic is that it happened over two decades ago, and much of the Internet from that time is lost. I (and I think most people who played in classic) remember Enchanters mezzing in groups, not charming, but we don't have solid evidence one way or the other.

For instance, if you look at the Wayback archive of Caster's Realm strategy guides for Enchanters you'll find:

1. just one out of six is an (unfortunately lost) guide called "CHARM SOLOING - ITS TRUE POWER."
2. "CLERICS, SHAMANS AND STUNS" - another lost guide, presumably about grouping and not charming
3. HOW TO MAKE YOUR HIGH LEVEL ENCHANTER SMILE - a detailed guide on how to mez in groups (ie. what most classic Enchanters actually did), which mentions charming only "If add is unmezzable then enchanter has two choices: charm if possible ..."
4. another lost one ("INFORMATION ON ENCHANTING AFTER LVL 51")
5. "ENCHANTER 51+" - not lost, and again the only mention of charm is ... about bards doing it: "Bards also do a large amount of damage and can debuff mobs some, and they can charm a mob!"
6. another lost one ("A THEORYON SOLOING THE ARCH GHOUL MAGI")

And if you look at other guide sections on Caster's Realm or Allakhazam or similar old sites, you'll find the same: there's absolutely evidence some Enchanters charmed, but in aggregate the charm stuff is the minority.

Now, compare that to here, where we have eight Enchanter guides ... and seven of them are huge on charming (the only one that isn't is a guide for "Enchanter Newbie Gear").

Originally Posted by whydothis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since you mentioned it, people play street fighter 2 differently now than they did in 1992. Given time, strategies change. People have figured out how to charm optimally. Gotta just accept it.

People said the same thing about Chardok AoE, and about Bard swarm kiting: "it was totally possible in classic, it should be possible here". But the devs decided it wasn't classic, and now just I think most would agree that the 25 mob AoE limit makes this place more classic, not less.

P.S. Just to be clear, this is about wanting P99 to be more classic, not about class hate, and everything I'm saying applies to charm in general (ie. Bard/Druid/Necro charming also).

I also have no dog in this fight (unlike all the Enchanter players here who will have a vested interest in keeping their class more powerful). But I do have a 60 Druid (that I leveled mainly through charming, so I'm well aware of how broken it is here), and I plan to main an Enchanter in Green 2.0 ... it's just that I want to play the Enchanter from 1999, not the overpowered P99 version.