[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am just confused as to what you are trying to argue. Before you said you weren't really talking about Shamans under 60, but then you started talking about them again.

What I actually wrote was:

Before 60 no one is maxing any stats, so I'be been assuming the conversation starts at 60: personally I'm not even trying to discuss <60 here.

That seems extremely clear to me: we were talking about maxing Stamina, and no one is maxing Stamina at level 39. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand, but even if it was ... literally just two posts later ... I clarified that even without considering stat maxes, HP was still preferable:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. But also (re: <60), when XPing max mana truly doesn't matter. I never died, not even once, in my entire journey to 60, because I started at max mana, used it all up, and died at the end for the lack of just a bit more mana.

However, I did die (many times) from fights where I started at max HP, and then died because I couldn't gate out fast enough, or root fast enough, or whatever ... and a few more HP might have given me time to get that last survival spell off.

And yet, despite me saying this way back on page 5 ... you still can't explain what I've got wrong there.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I didn't even have my epic. My key items were Fungi Tunic, Fungi Staff, JBB, Black Fur Boots, Shawl 7, and Othmir Prexus Totem. The other slots were just filled with normal gear, nothing from raids.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am an Ogre, and I dumped most of my points into WIS. I have 128 STA base, so that is 23 points more than a Barbarian with 105 WIS and 105 STA.

Mystery solved: you're talking oranges and everyone else here was talking Apples.

But getting back to Barbarian Shaman (you know, the topic of the thread) still no one has presented any evidence that for 99.9% of that Shaman's life Stamina won't be better; all you've got is "in the last 0.01% of their life as they get their very final items, they might (depending on gear preferences) hit the cap."

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have run out of Mana before due to bad resist chains, fizzling, adds, etc. Shaman spells are expensive.

Again, you're reframing my arguments to win, while ignoring what I wrote. Be honest: in what % of fights do you actually start at max mana, burn through all that mana (but not all your HP), and then die at the end from lack of mana?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have run out of mana before and after Torpor ... *WW Dragon details*

But again, stop ignoring what I'm asking: is the hard part of a typical WW dragon fight that you run out of Mana but still have plenty of HP leftover, or (as I keep repeating) is the hard part surviving long enough to land slow?