[Byue]

Then it is all on your honor, I salute you.

I am wrong often, and will not fight when I am and I'm glad you reviewed your position, a bit. Your example was very good.
If a computer is the parameter, the virus doesn't want to be found but you can find it.
Because you know what a clean computer looks like.

I think, and this is what experts seem to agree with, which is why I think that, that the biggest risk in mail-in voting is that your vote does not get counted for a myriad of administrative reasons.

There are serious safeguards that are remarkably easy to make to ensure the ballots are legit like serial numbers and what not, you now. We can do it for bank notes, and money is safe.

Again, the most probable thing that will happen if you vote by mail is that it is rejected for one of the many reasons it can be rejected for, like not being received on time, even if you mailed it in time and your signature not being 100% exactly like the one they have on file (which you know, it is fucking tough to do a signature the same, every time. "Real signatures are always slightly different and they differ every time. If the signatures are exact replica there is a very strong possibility of forgery. Difference between signatures increases proportionally with the complexity . Simple ones are less different from one another." ( why signing is different every time)

No studies, whether conducted in the US or anywhere else in the world, found that there was an increased voter fraud when using mail.

And it makes sense, it's a lot of work for one vote and states, with the first past the post like the US has, don'T swing all that much.

Can you imagine doing this incredible voter fraud that extend to mail fraud and a lot of jail time for one extra vote?

Five states - Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington - hold their elections primarily by mail and have documented almost no cases of cheating. Oregon, for instance, has sent out more than 100 million mail ballots since 2000 and reported around a dozen cases of proven fraud.


Basically, there is not a tons of ways you can do voter fraud so we kind of know where to check.

Basically, you get more chances of changing an election by partaking in it, convincing your friends to go out and vote, etc.

Also, the last 3 people in the US charged with voter fraud were republicans [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Correlation is not causation but it does mean, if the topic interests you, that perhaps listening to republicans on this is not ideal.

And seeing the facts, stricter ID laws for voting won't affect fraud but it will affect turn out and let me just say one thing:

WE have like, no power.
The only power we have, is to choose so basically, the biggest amount of people who gets to choose is good. Anything that lessen voter turn out can be seen as antidemocratic if voting is the only power you wield.

Think about that.

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So are we relying on the "people smarter than I created these systems to enforce our laws, therefore they have no potential failings" explanation?

So we can apply this concept to the use of lethal force?

Oh, and capital punishment?

I mean people like to armchair critique the fuck out of those, but if law enforcement is a bunch of smartie scientist types, then they probably are getting everything else right too

No, I literally meant that there are a lot of very smart people working on these problems.
To me, seeing johny the uneducated republican not knowing how shit works is not a representation of knowledge.
I don't fucking know how to fly the soyouz but I trust it works and that someone who does know how to pilot it will be able to take it back to earth safely.
Even if I could never do it.

I'm saying that I don't really know American laws surrounding voting and that some smart people are making sure that there is less and less fraud, every cycle.

A bit like money printed in 2021 have more security features on them than the money printed in 2010 because some smart people benched over how forgers forge it and how they can avoid that.

"Most powerful country on earth!"
Can't even run an election without fraud because no smart people at all work on election security during the off election cycles.
You tried to twist what I said.
I don't think the NSA knows about every terrorist on earth but everyday, a little more. Right?

To be fair though, I think removing these machines is the first thing that should be done.
All western countries, all democratic countries actually, use paper and pen and it works wonder and it leaves a clear paper trail.
Very hard to hack.
Not without problems, but if India can vote with paper and count he billion of votes in less than a day, USA needs to get a better grip.



Can't claim to be a functioning democracy if you don't even believe in the institutions that serves democracy, like election officials telling you there was no fraud.