[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by rabids [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you talking about fungis? My point wasnt that you could get lots of fungis as a casual, it was that anyone can get money. Killing guards, grouping in where ever and winning randoms, farming gems for armor, etc etc. You say that you know a lot about EQ, you should know that you can get money as a casual. You can also farm torpor with a couple of friends. I have done guardian wurms with 3 people, without torpor.

The reason why I am talking about Fungi's is because of what you said:

Originally Posted by rabids [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torpor takes 100k to get. That is a bit more then 2 fungi tunics or a couple of weeks of lucky drops if you are casual.

You literally said it is easy to get some lucky Fungi drops as a casual[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never claimed farming money is hard. But it is time consuming in most cases, unless you get lucky. So is raiding. If you can spend the time to farm 100k and get to level 60, you can probably find time to raid. Fungi Farming and GWurms usually require hours of time back to back to see results, so if you can play 3+ hours at a time, you can raid. If you are so casual that you can only do guard farming for 1 hour a day forever, then yes, raiding won't be for you.

I never said you can't do GWurms or King without Torpor. I have done both without Torpor as well. But both of those spots can be done with a small number of people. This means if you are grouping with randos, they will pick a Torpor Shaman over you if they had the choice. If you have a farm crew that gets together all the time, that is great! Not a lot of people have that though, especially casuals.

Originally Posted by rabids [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So torpor shammy isnt the same as raiding shammy.

But I thought we were talking about torpor shammies, and there is a lot of different kinds of torpor shammies.

This is mystique again. All Torpor Shamans operate EXACTLY the same. All players can acquire the proper gear and strategies to do all of the Shaman content possible if they dedicate enough time and platinum. The only thing a Torpor Shaman cannot do is swap racials. You are stuck with whatever racials you get from the start. That is why people debate about which racial is best. It is literally the only thing that is different between Torpor Shamans.

Originally Posted by rabids [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a lot of snare quotes I could bring up, but I will just say this. I am stupified that we are discussing whether or not snare is any good.

Where did I ever debate that snare is bad? I said snare isn't very useful for Shaman specific strategies and farm spots. That is different from saying snare is bad. Also, Snare neck is specifically the WORST snare in the game, on top of having a long cast time, so it is an extremely limited snare. Snare is amazing for quadding, for example. Shamans can't quad though, even with all of their snare items. Even if you could find a way to ghetto quad, it wouldn't be as effective as the other Shaman strategies available. Different spells have different benefits for different classes when soloing.

When grouping (3+ people), you will probably have a person who can snare, and do it way better than Snare Neck. This is especially true if an encounter requires a snare. Nobody is expecting a Shaman to break out the snares when building a group, nor should they.

Originally Posted by rabids [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

here are lots of similar quotes I could pull up from this thread. All wrong. You have video examples (IMO cherry picked) and calculations that slightly strengthen your arguments. That is not proof or evidence in itself. If I film myself killing something without healing myself, does that prove that healing isnt important? Of course not. It just prove that I can kill that specific mob without healing. An extreme and absurd example, but that is what you are doing. You have some videos where you dont need snare and you say that torpored shamans have no use of snare. Some vidoes where the troll regen (or the FSI for that matter) makes just about no difference and you say that troll regen doesnt make any real difference.

It is much easier to prove something happening (show a video of something happening) then prove that something wont happen. Or science would have disproven ghosts and religion long ago.

You talk about facts, math, evidence, reality and proof, but as a chemical engineer I can say that it takes a lot more then what you have presented to prove something according to those standards.

I am a game programmer. I deal with logic and facts, specific to gaming. I am providing evidence for my claims. That is how this works lol. I make a claim, and I provide evidence. If you want to dispute my claim, please provide counter evidence. You do not get to say "Your evidence is insufficient!" without providing any of your own. I am 100% open to being wrong here. But I have yet to see people posting even one scenario where snare would have made a huge difference on a Torpor Shaman. And AGAIN, even if you can show a rare scenario, other Shamans have 3 different options to acquire snare if they want to. Yes, having charges on items is a pain in the ass, but Snare Neck is not giving a Troll an advantage other Shaman races cannot get too. At worst, it is simply preventing you from doing that specific situation as often, without replenishing your charge items first. But Shamans are not new to this. FD ring and Puppet Strings are also items with charges, and they are used in very specific Shaman scenarios.