[Treehorn]

Originally Posted by 3d_glasses [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is a pretty ridiculous comparison. If i understand correctly: you are a person with no hands and you're trying to understand which is harder to do: cook spaghetti or compose a violin concerto. This is the reason why there is a clearly objective way the targeting system with mouse could be deemed as poor? Youre lambasting me because I am trying to take away your hands or take away your ability to achieve some kind of nuance hands provide? Again you prove an insufficient argument: what is it that is logically binding your strange double metaphor to skill against the lack of tab targeting? Can i not throw it back at you - the skill and use of a mouse requires the finesse of a violin player, without it we are playing the game like brutish pasta chefs.
This completely ignores the fact that musical composition can be done without an instrument or even hands....but please the obvious loss of musical virtuosity is the sad fate of a handless spaghetti maker

I'm not sure if you're deliberately misconstruing what I've been saying, or just failing to understand.

I'm personally content with the idea of having to mouseclick, in one respect. It allows the players who are the most skillful AND adaptable to rise above the rest, and stand-out. In some respects it increases the challenge, and therefore makes the game even more rewarding. But the game is already extremely rewarding and challenging, with tab targeted included. Tab targeting removes one aspect of the challenge, there's no doubt. But it's a shitty challenge. It's clunky, frustrating controls that were quickly done away with in live, because they made the game far less fun on an hour-to-hour basis. Because yes, it raises the skill-floor. But it also lowers the skill-ceiling. That's what you seem to be missing from the violin/spaghetti analogy, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

It is not possible to be as effective at crowd control without tab targeting, as it is with tab targeting. In a perfect group, with an experienced, component tank, using multiple keyboard commands? Sure. But that isn’t the reality of P1999 for the vast majority of players and groups. Tab targeting permits sublime and skillful CC when the worst-case scenarios happen, when people mess up or aren’t optimal, masterful players. This is the majority of the EQ experience for the majority of players. The server stats show most people never hit raiding level, and primarily grind in PUGs. I can say from my casual experience playing mid-level on blue at three points (beginning, middle and end of the beta cycle), that it's extraordinarily rare to find a player who doesn't regularly make mistakes.

Tab targeting is the hands that allow for skillful, rewarding crowd control in the unpredictable environment that we usually find ourselves in. Mouse clicking is the blunt instrument that reduces us all to pasta boiling. There is no finesse to it. There is endurance of the frustration.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're thinking of cycle targetting. Vanilla has tab targetting. Don't use mouse, use keyboard commands, positioning and manipulation of mob logic and pathing.

Maybe you know something I don't... which keyboard commands are you referring to, beyond those listed here and here?

Originally Posted by soronil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am sorry that your friend is sick. That is terrible. But your comments are asinine.

Target cycling helps SOME situations using SOME strategies with SOME classes.

Why doesn't your friend play any of the 7+ classes that simply need to /assist tank?
Why don't you guys utilize one of the many comps / pulling strategies that are able to consistently solo pull?
Why can't your friend literally walk 5 feet over to put the mob he wants to target closest to him?
How was your friend able to determine with minimal beta testing that the game was "utterly and completely unplayable"?

If you guys want to play together, there are so many ways to make it work.

1) To repeat, it's not an issue of a one-off hypothetical situation. It's an issue of hour-by-hour, realistic gameplay reality.
2) It's not just my friend, it's a significant percentage of the player base that is less privileged than the very few who a) post frequently on the forums b) 'master' the game to the point where they've lost touch with the gameplay experience of the majority.