Quote:
Originally Posted by heartbrand
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To claim the server pop is where it is now because of Tune is laughable. People aren't sitting on the sidelines currently because of Apex or Tune or whatever guild may still be raiding here uncontested in 2027; they are sitting on the sidelines because most people aren't really interested in coming back to a server locked forever in Velious that we already played out, to fight for pixels we don't need, with more zones than players, and with uninteresting mass pvp of "hug a zoneline for 3 hours refreshing buffs for maybe 3 minutes of action followed by fighting people while engaged on a mob"
wipe red or make a new pvp server that isn't launched with game breaking chain rooting mage pets with no guard assist and 100x other game breaking bugs that were here on launch, and you'll see 500+ pop again; the end.
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You're correct in all aspects of this post: however the deviation is in the mentality of say <Empire> v <Apex>.
We can agree both guilds were zergs in their respected era's.
During Empire days I never heard leadership ask their members to scrub out other guilds. Infact Gongshow and Colgate specifically stated on many occasions when asked why we dont dont take VP from Friends is because they dont want to kill the server and allow other guilds to function and get lewt. They also began to allow <TMO> to do HoT and other raids after it was clear TMO<Blue> had been put in their place re: the adpating to red comments from Tiggles.
We also knew Friends was doing HoT/WToV deep into the nights but no one went and trained them etc.
We knew TMO was doing Kael Arena and PoG for gear and no one excessively went out of their way to destroy their time in game.
During these times there was also a few other guilds around: Prophets of Slush, Casual Sucm etc. All functioning guilds.
Now fast foward to Apex's era and they are going out of their way to kill off all other guilds so that there is 0 competition to get loot. Heck they were killing Trakanon just to deny guilds VP keys. They were doing this all while the population was plummeting.
Tune turned VS raids from optional to DKP because not enough people would show up just to take on Thunderdomes' strangle hold on it (this is VS we are talking about during velious era). We are talking about a 50-60 member velious guild vrs a 12-15 member kunark guild.
So yes, Apex and Tune are responsible for the loss of a partial amount of the population on red99. Instead of harboring an enviornment where guilds could co-exist they would destory them resulting in people quiting. No one has time to neckbeard like core Apex neckbearded.
But the totality of population loss is a result of the server not getting wipes.