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Originally Posted by Troxx
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As usual Jimjam hits the nail on the head. Repeatedly.
My paladin needs more wisdom/mana, but I rarely find myself full mana with the limited pool I have. This is especially true after hitting 59 and getting the celestial cleansing spell. That heal is just too efficient and nice (1.5 sec cast) to not use routinely on both self and group mates. If I could choose between having 100ac or 60 more wisdom, however, I’d opt for the ac. Thankfully such trade offs don’t really exist on p99 without making some extreme choices (that also involves very high end raid gear).
For now my pathetic 1500 mana at level 60 gets the job done well. Threat is CHEAP for us to generate. Big mana expenditures for me are the heals I toss around, buffs I refresh, and stuns I strategically use. In a fast paced group I like to hover between 70-80% mana. It leaves enough reserve to heal/root/stun/calm liberally if the situation calls for it and enough mana deficit to capitalize on those moments I have to opportunity to sit on my ass for a pinch to get mana back. If I get to full mana, I preemptively refresh a round of Divine Str buffs +/- ghetto symbols and ac as needed.
Same concept with the shaman ... I try never to be full mana unless I’ve already refreshed every buff that isn’t already fresh.
Caveat: Warrior is what I take to primary raids. Paladin is for group fun or trashy clear raids without massive hitting raid targets at the end of them. If my paladin were raid exclusive I’d put more emphasis on wisdom. Those heals come in handy.
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If you have a level 60 Paladin with 1500 mana you're handicapping yourself for "burst" heal potential, and I would go to say your stance on this subject is probably based inherently in the fact you know you have, OR you're using a Paladin simply as a sub-par warrior with easy agro mechanic, which there is nothing wrong with that.
A 1500 mana Paladin would be abysmal to play at 60 vrs a 3000-3500 mana pool Paladin, sorry - but nothing you can say can explain this away. You're burning 15% of you mana pool to cast a single HoT, where as a 3500 mana paladin is blowing 6.4%, how is that good thing lol?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam
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I said soothe, not pacify. Soothe works on mobs up to 55 and costs only 30 mana. Soothe + atone is a solid synergy, though I appreciate a little team work is required.
I talk about mana regen, not because I suggest wearing it for any one particular build (obviously all builds should if they can), but because mana regen is the limiting factor on how many spells you can cast across an extended period of time.
Given the same mana regen both Paladins will be casting the same number of spells. The exception is the wisdom paladin gets a one time boost of whatever their difference in mana pool is (and only if he gets really low on mana). He won't get that benefit again unless the low wis build paladin ends up sitting around at full mana, which if he does I'd ascribe to being a player mistake, not a build error.
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Always thought Soothe capped at 40? if not - well there you go learned me something new, or that needs to get fixed on the server.
If both Paladin's are starting off as OOM and have to consecutively cast spells as they regen mana, than yes that's true. Where it deviates is if you're starting point is 2000 mana, or 3500 mana, then effectively a mana build Paladin has 1500 more mana each time they med up to expend.
2000mana /225 mana cost of HoT = 8.8 casts
<-- Sacrifices the extra heals for maybe a little extra mitigation that doesn't really matter for the tier level of mobs most Paladins tank.
3500mana /225 mana cost of HoT = 15.5 casts
<--Far more effective on raids as they can take on a roll of patch healing/far more effective in groups when needed to heal.
So no, you're wrong that they have the same basis of healing potential due to Mana regen alone, that only stands true if they are
starting at OOM.
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I think ultimately the dance is danced on this subject and those that get it, get it, and those that don't, don't. "Splitting hairs" on starting stats is def. a good comment that was made.
I think the only
TERRIBLE race choice you can make as a Paladin is Half-Elfs because that 60 something starting wisdom would be painful to over come.
Regardless of whats been discussed, a dex build vrs a mana build vrs a ac Paladin build will pretty much tank normal groups without much difference if all the tank is required to do is keep agro and be healed.
The split of difference seems to be:
(1) Excessively going for Mana (more healing/stunning)
or
(2) AC/HP (slightly more mitigation)
There's merit for both sides, but I personally think and have experienced that having a low mana pool on your Paladin is not optimal in this era of Velious.
But it's good to see the discussion take place.